causticbeat wrote:i think the DMR weapons are too sniperish... what we need is something like a standard rifle with a 6x scope and bipod, or something like that. more of a "sniper variant" on an assault rifle, not a rifle that a player will immediately connect with long range sniping style of play. im not sure what modifications are technically available, but a modified assault rifle.
6x??????????? Sweet.
That's what the SR-25 was, and it sucked massive amounts of ***. Plus, REALISTICLY a DM is more likely in Iraq/Afghanistan to use a M14 than a SR-25, I know because I carried one and saw all the guys walking around with'em.
Squad Leaders in game are more akin to Platoon Leaders in real life, so no, a SL would not have a DMR.
Dr. Chagas wrote:Maps should either have a marksman or sniper kit. Not both.
Urban enviroment, marksman kit.
Non-urban enviroment, sniper kit.
'Nuff said.
100% agree. There too many snipers on maps atm
can you imagine a 32 player server. roughly 13 active players on each side if the server is full. then out of the 13, you have 2 snipers and 2 marksmen. that is ridiculous
Well, considering you only get Snipers once the server hits 40 people, I don't see a problem.
I frequently pick up a Marksman kit when I'm in a squad, unless I need to use something more important like AT. But I don't always run with the squad.
That however doesn't make me any less of a team player than anyone else in the squad. I just make use of the tools available to me, I have a scope which is good for two things, picking off infantry from range and spotting infantry and vehicles at range. Both of these can be done whilst running with a squad, but usually you get too close to the action to be that effective.
So, an example is EJOD, when the squad enters the city to capture Ruins for example, I will go on ahead and take up a position on one of the roofs, usually the one in the east side of the square, this gives me a semi-decent vantage point to view enemy movement and gives me good view of the northern and western approaches to East City which is the second objective my squad and team will move to capture. This allows me to give them warning and pick off any advanced infantry the enemy send there. I will generally stay in that locale until West City is also captured, providing defensive cover for East City.
Once the team moves ahead to Gardens, I will drop down and move to the rooftop south east of Gardens and provide cover from there and spotting for anything that approaches from the north. All this time using VOIP to stay in good communication with my team. When Gardens turns grey I drop down and move up the East side of the map pressing on to the next capture point, whilst my squad, (assuming the rest of the team is smart enough to stay and capture Gardens), moves up the West side of the map to the next capture point.
As point man on this move I will be 30 to 40 metres ahead of my squad and as I reach the first bunker I will enter it providing cover across to the flag and my advancing squadmates, meanwhile still providing spotting for the team for anything coming from the North.
The same basic principle of Support Fire or Point Man works on most of the maps, I am an eyes extension for my squad and my team as I have the scope, whether it is by providing intel on troop movements or covering someone's back, I'm still being a team player.
Removing the kit or assigning it to the Officer would negate any of the benefits of having the scope. You don't have to run with your squad to be a team player.
The problem isn't the kits, it's a few jerks out there who just want to rack up high scores. Personally I never actually use the Sniper kit unless I can't get a Marksman, cause I find the bolt action just slows me down too much as I am rarely that far away from the action that I can't be picked of with small arms fire from the other kits, it's pretty rare for me to see lone soldiers standing around waiting to be shot, usually its three or four at a time, so being able to hit multiple targets fast is a great bonus in not giving away my position and denting any enemy assaults.
No time limit for S/L's requesting their officer kit. So what's to stop him from requesting his officer kit and letting a squad member pick it up, and then request another one, etc, until his whole squad is armed with DMR's?!
America was a tad late into the First World War. They redeemed themself's and came in slightly sooner in the Second. Now they seem determined to start the Third.
Lucid Nightmare wrote:A loophole! There is a loophole!
No time limit for S/L's requesting their officer kit. So what's to stop him from requesting his officer kit and letting a squad member pick it up, and then request another one, etc, until his whole squad is armed with DMR's?!
Arg, the pain. It would be so annoying.... >.<
I vote no, because I rather like my scoped QBZ.
Good eye Lucid.
Is it possible for a squad member to deploy Rally points if they have the Officer kit.
This would have some sort of tactical advantage if so. As in the Squad could have two spawn points and each fire-team can change their spawn points, thus making them more mobile and independent. Granted, the SL would need to play more conservativly.
One with the SL moving
And two with the Fire-team member moving the RPs.
Alpah team
SL=DM or whatever.
Rifleman
anti-personnel
___
Bravo team
Bravo leader= Officer kit
whatever kit
whatever kit.
:
I do not think this is bad form.
However, if the Devolopers clearly do not want players doing this, I would not give the Fire-team leader the Officer kit.
bosco wrote:If the M14 was the Officer's standard weapon, we would have people who only go SL to get it.
To prevent this, isin't there is already a minimum # of ppl you have to have in your squad to request a marksman kit. I really like your idea, because when I am squad leader I often try to stay back so that I can organize and give orders to my squad easier, but my weapon doesn't have a powerful enough scope. Right now I do see team-oriented marksman occationally, but it is more common to see lone marksmen sniping on the other side of the map. This can sometimes
be a good thing if they kill enough enemies and prevent them from entering the main battle, but it is way too common.
My #1 excuse for having a bad game: "GET-OFF-OF-MY-KEYBOARD-YOU-STUPID-CAT!!!"
America was a tad late into the First World War. They redeemed themself's and came in slightly sooner in the Second. Now they seem determined to start the Third.
Deadmonkiefart wrote:To prevent this, isin't there is already a minimum # of ppl you have to have in your squad to request a marksman kit.
That's not contrary to what I said.
I'd go Squadleader, get a few people in my squad, tell them to do whatever they want and get my M14 the whole round, every minute and not limited.
The only problem I have with the M-14 is it needs more recoil. The Real life M-14 was hated back in Veitnam when it first came out because it had killer recoil. The only job it was good at was as a semi-auto sniper rifle and even then it was still impossable to control on semi-automatic fire. It was too heavy and had way too much recoil. The only reason USMC snipers use it still is because of the stopping power that it has. The real gun is nothing like the one you see in the movie BlackHawkDown. You can't hip shoot the thing and still hit two targets even at 50 meters.
a scoped weapon would be good for the SL so it can be used as a spotting device also, just a benefit of being in charge plus you have to stay back and do all of the movement orders and control the rally points
LightFighter wrote:a scoped weapon would be good for the SL so it can be used as a spotting device also, just a benefit of being in charge plus you have to stay back and do all of the movement orders and control the rally points
it's not realistic no SL in real life is issued sniper rifles. And spotting troops is what the binocs are for not snipeing people. Go play CSS if you wan't a sniper rifle and to be in charge of a team of bunny hopping men.
The Officer kit have the standard rifle with scope. The problem is that only the British and Chinese have rifles with scopes right now. MEC and US rifles are getting modelled right now, and will get scopes too.
'[R-DEV wrote:Katarn']Cerberus, did you read what he wrote at all?
I did, and i still don't like the idea.
@guy who started this thread(forgot name)
You say people lone wolf it all the time when they get DMR, correct? Well, now there will be a bunch of people becoming squad leaders just to get the DMR, and they'll still go off by themselves like they did before.
This will just lead to too many DMRs per team, and a lot of crappy SL(because according to you, DMR users mostly go off by themselves to rack up kills.)
I haven't read all the posts over, so i'm just gonna throw my opinion straight into the debate. I thonk the marksman kit should be kept. however, i think it should be limitied to a marksman per squad if possible. This is a way that is a realistic setup of a real squad as well. And it is up to the squadleader to see if the marksman plays as a squadmember or the like.
my personal experience with the marksman kit is that its a great defensive weapon, and support weapon. so if my squad moves from a targetbubble to attack a spawn, i like to stay behind, and make shure the flag dont get capped or make a mess for the people who try. if my squad struggles, i try to help them out.
so im all for the kit. a close range marksman is good. and he is supposed to do damage. noone likes a good marksman, nor a sniper. but everybody hates a kithugger. i think also, that the marksman serves a good scout role.
$kelet0r wrote:Like I said in the beginning, this was going to attract alot of negative responses
Explain. A squad leader is likely the most highly trained individual on a frontline infantry level - having them armed with a weapon requiring higher than basic proficiency in rifle is not unrealistic, it's quite plausible in my eyes.
32 players. Increase the minimum to 5 in a squad to get an officer kit and you have at most 5-6 DMRs, which seems reasonable. Granted not every officer or sergeant is issued a DMR irl but on the other hand
- every irl squad level unit has a DMR. Hell the whole Soviet military doctrine was based on massed armour and infantry squads with an SVD.
- using a DMR requires more experience and training in marksmanship which an NCO would likely have
- someone said we cannot mod the players (people on this forum always say that ). I disagree. In the same way that taxation is used to modify behaviour, PRM can take steps to alter player's behaviour. So we have a kit that needs to be used in a squad but ingame never is. Solution: give the kit to the player that has to be in a squad at all times. Problem solved.
Like KP said the problem is with the people who use it now. So rather than change the player who use it now, give it to the players who will use it in its intended squad level role.
An NCO doesn't necessarily have sniper or DM training. It's not required of him/her. Ask the mil guys here.
I don't think Soviet military doctrine is relevant in this case. And you don't think that having 1 DMR per squad is too much on a 64 player server? Anyway, 5-6 DMRs per 32 player team is WAY too much.
And still, what's to stop someone from creating a squad and running off with the rifle as soon as it hits 5 people?
More guns and bullets make bad guys go away faster, which in turn makes everyone in the area safer. -Paul Howe
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)
). I disagree. In the same way that taxation is used to modify behaviour, PRM can take steps to alter player's behaviour. So we have a kit that needs to be used in a squad but ingame never is. Solution: give the kit to the player that has to be in a squad at all times. Problem solved.