$kelet0r wrote:- every irl squad level unit has a DMR. Hell the whole Soviet military doctrine was based on massed armour and infantry squads with an SVD.
This is not correct. One soldier in a Soviet TO&E motorized rifle platoon was equipped with the SVD. The SVD only got down to the squad level in the VDV (Airborne/Air Assault Forces), which is/was almost a service branch unto itself.
And just because US rifle squads have started to include a designated marksman in the past 5-6 years does not mean that all armed forces use this doctrine, so "every squad level unit irl" probably does not have a DMR (precision / accurized semi-automatic or selective fire rifle).
Gunwing wrote:The only problem I have with the M-14 is it needs more recoil. The Real life M-14 was hated back in Veitnam when it first came out because it had killer recoil. The only job it was good at was as a semi-auto sniper rifle and even then it was still impossable to control on semi-automatic fire. It was too heavy and had way too much recoil. The only reason USMC snipers use it still is because of the stopping power that it has. The real gun is nothing like the one you see in the movie BlackHawkDown. You can't hip shoot the thing and still hit two targets even at 50 meters.
Actually, perhaps the biggest complaint concerning the M-14 in VIetnam was not the recoil, rather it was the length of the weapon. This was a serious issue in the thick jungles. The recoil in full-auto was quite a bit to handle, but the trouble of actually wielding the weapon in a confined area was the major problem. The M-14 was originally designed to be used in Europe where it is mostly flat, not the dense jungles of SE Asia.
You said "Semi-auto" control, but that can't be right. Semi-auto on an M-14 is not hard to control at all, unless you are doing rapid-fire, and a sniper more than likely wouldn't be doing that.
Last edited by Arklight on 2007-03-12 02:39, edited 1 time in total.
What should happen is that there should be an option for a M-14 without a scope for an option. Make it require 4 players in a squad to have and limit it to just 3 or 4.
Gunwing wrote:it's not realistic no SL in real life is issued sniper rifles. And spotting troops is what the binocs are for not snipeing people. Go play CSS if you wan't a sniper rifle and to be in charge of a team of bunny hopping men.
I didn't say Sniper Rifle , I said a put an Optic on the weapon, so the squad leader can use it for dual purpose, a M4 with a Opic on it is not a sniper rifle!! Time to get CCO's on the M16a4s and the M4's anyways, who uses IRON SITE these days but REMFS?
really as the SL you have too much to do to be the SDM. and FYI, I've been in the INFANTRY for 16 years so you don't have to inform me of the role of the squad leader I do this shit for a living
'[R-DEV wrote:Eddie Baker']This is not correct. One soldier in a Soviet TO&E motorized rifle platoon was equipped with the SVD. The SVD only got down to the squad level in the VDV (Airborne/Air Assault Forces), which is/was almost a service branch unto itself.
And just because US rifle squads have started to include a designated marksman in the past 5-6 years does not mean that all armed forces use this doctrine, so "every squad level unit irl" probably does not have a DMR (precision / accurized semi-automatic or selective fire rifle).
anyone can attend the course! as long as they meet the course perquisites that pretty much up to the units, But it is what it is so that pretty much up to the unit, What happens in the infantry doesn't translate well to support units they pretty much keep the squad/platoon level structure for accountability and supervisory reasons, not for deploying weapon systems and combat power
I'm an US ARMY Marksmanship Instructor The Squad Des Marksman is your best shooter in the Squad you send him to our course and we help him become a proficient precision shooter with the M4/M16A4, Most Soldiers do not know how to properly operate the windage and elevation knobs on the weapon, The Squad Designated Marksman will understand how to properly engage targets from 100-550 meters with Iron site he can also direct other squad members fires, he will return to the unit with the train the trainer concept and improve the overall squads accuracy.
Last edited by LightFighter on 2007-03-12 15:03, edited 1 time in total.
I was under the impression that the US DRM rifle we had in game was an M-21? Please correct me! Isn't the M21 the M14 with a better barrel and scope attached? Small point, and probably incorrect on my part(?).
Another small point, but I play SL most of the time and I really don't want any scopes or optics. I prefer iron sights for all of the different teams. No good reason why, but I guess I built a dislike (read: mistrust) of scopes after bumping the damn things on the way to the range as a young fella. I probably wouldn't argue with you over the fact that scopes and optics are probably better in game terms, just that some people prefer not to use them. This is a small whinge, and won't really have much an effect on what the devs have decided to do.
Personally, I only really want a gun good enough to have a fighting chance when defending myself rather than a gun all tooled up with the fancy bits. (I might even take a shotgun if I was given a choice). Either way, DRM kits all over the place would certainly force more people to hanker for specialist kits because, "if you can't beat them, then join them". Not good I think.
I'd really like to see more basic riflemen about, they are as rare as hen's teeth these days and so WONDERFULLY IMPORTANT. I doubt anyone could deny that the holy trinity of a squad is an OFFICER KIT, a MEDIC and a RIFLEMAN. The squad has then got unlimited ammo (think of the effectiveness of AT, heavy AT and support classes!!) and has oodles of defensive smoke, can soak up a lot of punishment (or theoretically live forever) thanks to the medic, and on top of that, has probably two spawn points (SL and RP), can call supply boxes (get specialist kit) AND can request Artillery and transport.
It is a funny thing, people seem to think the marksmen/sniper kit is what you want for taking out six guys and getting the points and that this is the best way to help the team. Yes, to a point. But I think the AT guy who wastes a full APC has not only killed 6 guys in a instant but removed a spawn point, stopped a kit dispenser, reduced enemy mobility and taken away some pretty effective firepower.
Do we really need more long range kits? They are undeniably a favourite with some people, but what happens to the game dynamic when they become too popular?
LightFighter wrote:I didn't say Sniper Rifle , I said a put an Optic on the weapon, so the squad leader can use it for dual purpose, a M4 with a Opic on it is not a sniper rifle!! Time to get CCO's on the M16a4s and the M4's anyways, who uses IRON SITE these days but REMFS?
really as the SL you have too much to do to be the SDM. and FYI, I've been in the INFANTRY for 16 years so you don't have to inform me of the role of the squad leader I do this shit for a living
Their getting one. Most likely a ACOG'd M4 to maintain the whole Project REALITY people.
I work as a squad member as a sniper, and as a marksman. I do it quite well. Just ask the guys on my squad that live through an assault on a flag because I keep the roofs clear and give them a birds eye view of defenders. I also have been know to defend flags successfully with a medic and support man by my side. A sniper can work with a squad if he wants to. I agree that is not the norm. Usually a sniper is a 'lone wolf' and wants to stay that way. I am not, and would miss the marksman option in the kit selection. That particular weapon makes it even easier to work with a squad for many reasons.
