Please give vehicles a chance!

[Jonathan_Archer_nx01]

1. I'm glad that damage of Heavy AT kits was reduced against reactive armor but destroying APCs is still easy(1shot-kill) and when firing missile at vehicle up to 70 metres away, it looks like rail-gun, not a missile.
It would be good to slightly decrease the missile velocity by 10 - 15%. I also watched some videos about missiles IRL they seem to be a bit slower.
This should include TOW, Eryx, Sraw and HJ-8.

2. Also IRL missiles are not perfect and I was wondering if it would be possible to give them small deviation from the place you are pointing at.

3. As for the repairs. It takes too long (about 2 minutes) to long to repair any vehicle. I know that repairing vehicles in real life is long process, but this bring me to another point: WAR isn't 30-60 minutes long.
+ we are not able to fully repair vehicles with wrench
!Halve the repair time! (1 minute is also long enough)

4. Accuracy of coaxials(MBT) and autocannons(apc) should be also slightly increased.

5. Zoom is ridiculous. Give MBTs, APCs and attack helicopters second zoom level which should have twice as high magnification as current zoom.
For example I was here on EJOD being hit with missiles from the top of that hill but the enemies were so far that they weren't even rendered.

[Jonathan_Archer_nx01]

Also Light ATs are very strong against APCs (2 hits). I think that APC should explode after 3 hits. This is conncted with how many RPGs insurgets carry. They have 1 in their weapon, ready to fire and 1 reload. But on the model he carries 2 RPGs in his rucksack so giving him 3 rockets in total would be great as long as 3 rockets would be able to destroy an APC.

Tanks should be able to take 1 more too, that they can now.

[TII]

5. Try pressing X

[77SiCaRiO77]

5. Try pressing X

thats a joke ,right??

1. agree , maps are 2km^2 with a field of view of 500 m max , its ridiculo the velocity of the AT misisls , BUT his damage would be incrased , an ERYx can take down any tank in the world .

2.not sure

3.maybe im agree , im a tanker , my pinion would be in favor of short time of repair

4.agree

5.not sure , maybe yes

[[3rd]Sonders]

5. Try pressing X

he did, that is full zoom.

[TII]

Sonders']he did, that is full zoom.

Guess I misunderstood then. ops:

[Jonathan_Archer_nx01]

thats a joke ,right??

1. agree , maps are 2km^2 with a field of view of 500 m max , its ridiculo the velocity of the AT misisls , BUT his damage would be incrased , an ERYx can take down any tank in the world .

2.not sure

3.maybe im agree , im a tanker , my pinion would be in favor of short time of repair

4.agree

5.not sure , maybe yes

I actually disagree with my point 2.
Or it was rather meant to be "if nothing else then at least this one"

[eggman]

All reasonable points and we are going to look at most of them for v0.6.

Perhaps not exactly in the ways you are getting at .. for example.... the issue with APCs is not so much that they die quickly .. cuz frankly it's realistic that 2 x Light AT weapons / RPG hits takes them out. The issue is that the Insurgents have an unlimited RPG class with 2 RPG rounds. And conventional Armies can respawn entire squads with a sqaud full of Light AT weapons 30s after they have been blown up by an APC. Those are elements we are going to change to affect better vehicle dynamics and survivability.

Other stuff also good points, will be looking at them, tho I don't think we'll be adjusting velocities on weapons arbitrarily. My philosophy is that where we know how weapon characteristics are.. we should use the real world definitions of those. And if that is bad for game play, instead of arbitrary nerfs, we look to the other unrealistic dimensions that are creating the situation and address those.

So for example.... in an Insurgency you don't see 60% of the people with RPGs nor do you have situations where a Rifle Squad gets routed by a vehicle they all "come back" with Light AT weapons ~ 30 seconds later.

[bobfish]

Well, balance aside, I assume if you could see the person firing at you, then he couldn't see you either. I'm not entirely sure about this, but I don't recall zooming rendering anything extra, just making what is already rendered clearer. So it's likely he just had a spotter and used the map to line up for a shot, after all, provided he can aim at the ground and there are no obstacles in the way he should hit at any distance.

[Wasteland]

Agreed with eggman.

I don't think that tanks are underpowered at all. It may be a bit rough on the APCs, but they aren't kill hunters anyways. If you're getting killed a lot in an APC, you probably aren't playing it right.

The repair time is just fine.

I'll bet that if you play for a while, you'll come to apreciate the finer points of tanking. Join Juniper's squad on 24/7 Devfile Al Basrah for some good instruction on tanking.

[LeadMagnet]

I'd say leave'em as they are. Use your dismounts for their intended purpose instead of trying to play the rambo battle taxi from hell. Realistic, you bet your ***. Unsupported armor on the modern battlefield can have it's *** handed to them by infantry.

[Lucid Nightmare]

I'd like to see the random deviation on the tank's main cannon reduced. It can be a pain in the arse trying to hit long range targets. Especially on maps like ejod where you can see them from quite far away.
I liked the 0.32 version of the cannon. The shell was fast and accurate. How it should be.

[[T]Terranova7]

eggman']All reasonable points and we are going to look at most of them for v0.6.

Perhaps not exactly in the ways you are getting at .. for example.... the issue with APCs is not so much that they die quickly .. cuz frankly it's realistic that 2 x Light AT weapons / RPG hits takes them out. The issue is that the Insurgents have an unlimited RPG class with 2 RPG rounds. And conventional Armies can respawn entire squads with a sqaud full of Light AT weapons 30s after they have been blown up by an APC. Those are elements we are going to change to affect better vehicle dynamics and survivability.

Other stuff also good points, will be looking at them, tho I don't think we'll be adjusting velocities on weapons arbitrarily. My philosophy is that where we know how weapon characteristics are.. we should use the real world definitions of those. And if that is bad for game play, instead of arbitrary nerfs, we look to the other unrealistic dimensions that are creating the situation and address those.

So for example.... in an Insurgency you don't see 60% of the people with RPGs nor do you have situations where a Rifle Squad gets routed by a vehicle they all "come back" with Light AT weapons ~ 30 seconds later.

Good to know. Right now you can't drive for 2 seconds in the city of Al Basrah without 5 RPGs wizzing in your direction.

I guess the best way would be to make it a limited kit. Maybe about 8-12 available per team? This is so we don't get instand spawn AT guys to take out that APC which killed them 30 sec ago.

Also, will you guys be looking at IEDs, slams and other explosives devices? Particulary I see the IEDs used in unusual methods. Like these vanilla tactics where the insurgents run up against an enemy vehicle, throw a few IEDs on and blow themselves and the vehicle up. Perhaps there can be some sort of long delay when deploying the explosives?

[eggman]

again the issue is not with IEDs, but an opportunity to look at the dimensions that are contributing to the "gheymeyness". And we are implementing something that we *hope* will help affect the way IEDs and suicide tactics are being over-used.

[Darkpowder]

Tanks and APC's are not underpowered, weakly armoured or too vulnerable to high tech heavy AT.

The problem is..

1 - that APCs and tanks rush into urban areas without infantry support or sweeps of the area and get overwhelmed without any situational awareness.
2 - people dont know how to use APC's and tanks at a distance, and for deployment of tanks safely, the lack of a commander will always hamper a big asset like a tank more than an infantryman.
3 - Not all tanks coordinate with another armoured vehicle at all well, working in teams of two or three on voice works like a treat.
4 - Not all tanks even have enough players crewing them. Personally I want to see an -obscene- delay introduced for the damn crew swapping fools.

5 - Infantry don't (and cant easily talk to the tanks close to them). support their tanks enough, often as SL or NCO i say, quick that damn tank is unsupported over there, lets make its life easier and go support it. Even a fool tanker will get the message after you clear the area the tank wants to drive through.

6 - Tanks need to remember their primary role is to kill other tanks and to act as a hammer blow against massively entrenched enemy assets, (but don't forget they are not artillery, and if artillery is available this should be used instead of a tank for softening up a CP).


Zoom -is- too short i still think on a tank, although not at all bad - considering the short distances on the map, and the lack of airborne distance possible.

Al basrah is a classic example of poor USMC play mostly when i see it. People either do the tank job well, and neglect infantry, or do the airpower well, and neglect armour and/or infantry, etc. This is the problem, not enough commanders and not enough ideas formulated before the tank just rolls in, gets pinned and hit a few times, hasn't planned on a re-organisation point/retreat point for repairs, and gets harrassed by everything under the sun because of lack of support from armour and infantry alike.

So in summary, tanks and vehicles are fine they have every chance.

[Deadmonkiefart]

Agaree on all points except that IRL heavy AT is 1 kit kill, and light AT is 2 hit kill on APCs. On what Eggman said, I use APC's all the time and never have problems with insurgents being killed by me and then respawning as RPG gunner and killing me. APc's have such an accurate gun that If you die as gunner in an APC, then either you have a crappy gunner who doesn't listen, you were not paying attention, or you made a mistake, in which case you should be killed.

[Guerra]

You know, the funny thing about the ERYX is that the US doesn't even use it.

But yes, it does travel extremely fast and up to 600 metres. However, Eryx launches softly, then the missile turns on, so it should have an initial slow launch, then it propels itself fast as hell, which doesn't happen. It just gets launched out like a standard RPG.

[Eddie Baker]

You know, the funny thing about the ERYX is that the US doesn't even use it.

That is correct. And in the game the US does not use it. China does not use the Eryx either but that is another thing we have to thank EA for, and if we replaced it with something realistic, I would drown in the tears falling over the forum

[Jonathan_Archer_nx01]

Why I made this thread? Recently I've found playing as anti-tank much easier than playing as vehicle operator/tanker.
Yesterday I played EJOD again, took Heavy AT at the main base, travelled into the town and worked with my squad on the roofs defending. In total I disabled 3 APCs before they even aproached the town and also 3 tanks which I let come closer so I had a clear 1-hit-kill shot of them, then 1 uaz and 2 vodniks. I was only been killed twice although that wasn't by any of those vehicles but snipers or marksmans.
APC cannons are not accurate at all. If you are trying to hit someone hidding behind a cover, you have to hit him directly which is usually impossible at distance. So I say increased accuracy of coaxial and autocannons would be fine as well as higher zoom magnification.

As for the missile velocity. We all know that BF2 speed isn't right. And they seem to me a bit overspeeded, just a bit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wReQuox4f9A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_nvA6d5CNk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE7XhiQZ ... ed&search=

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &q=javelin

And repairing is horrible, sometimes the only thing you do is repairing. 2 minutes are way too much if you realize how long the round usually is and how vurneable you are doing it. 1 minute would be welcome, best solution I think.

[Outlawz7]

I was only been killed twice although that wasn't by any of those vehicles but snipers or marksmans.

See, vehicles should be always supported by infantry and vice versa..
Ive read some Karkand vanilla guide, it said, that APCs and tanks should release smoke to cover the infantry behind them. That could be done on PR, too, and would save the infantry some smoke grenades for later use....altough the smoke actually works on PR...it never did on vanilla, as you could aim thru it and see the guys red nametag....geez..