making progress on v0.6

Rusty1986 · Post by **Rusty1986** » 2007-03-14 03:40

Ooh, this civilian kit sounds really interesting. I'm presuming their death will work in a negative way for US/UK forces? Perhaps heavy minus points if a civilian is shot...? The game aint really about the points though I guess so maybe people won't care. Great for scenario maps though.

Also loving the idea of spades and their capabilities. You guys continue to work wonders!

Rusty

Randleman5102 · Post by **Randleman5102** » 2007-03-14 03:40

Lol whenever I see a tank come I even though I know I should hide and run away, I feel a responsibilty to taking it out and not letting it kill my other teammates. Unfortunatly the best I can do is spot it out and hope others run away.

PlayPR! · Post by **PlayPR!** » 2007-03-14 03:49

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman']they can throw rocks

Hey hey hey! Whoa whoa hey! Rocks are WMDs! If used in the correct way they can leave more destruction in their wake than an ICBM, why do you think Iraqis through rocks at US tanks? Becuase they hope they can find that lucky one that will bring on an apocilyptic end to that tank crew!

On a serious note, I am loving the civilian kit idea. To bad there couldnt be civil bots though, and the spade idea is cool to, but maybe we could have more details on it? Just maybe?

HogansHeros · Post by **HogansHeros** » 2007-03-14 03:51

it all sounds cool, and a little confusing. I can't wait.

Deadmonkiefart · Post by **Deadmonkiefart** » 2007-03-14 03:54

The only problem I can see with a civillian kit is that people with a civillian kit means there are less insurgents, which is unrealistic. One of the main advantages of insurgents IRL is that they have superior numbers. Is there any way that you could make it so that the insurgents have a default higher # of players on their side than the US. Like US gets 32ppl and insurgents get 40?

SethLive! · Post by **SethLive!** » 2007-03-14 04:00

Deadmonkiefart wrote:The only problem I can see with a civillian kit is that people with a civillian kit means there are less insurgents, which is unrealistic. One of the main advantages of insurgents IRL is that they have superior numbers. Is there any way that you could make it so that the insurgents have a default higher # of players on their side than the US. Like US gets 32ppl and insurgents get 40?

Yeah, how is this going to work? do you anticipate alot of people choosing civilian class? what will be the penalty for killing one? will negative score for americans actually help the insurgents win?

Post by **eggman** » 2007-03-14 04:44

Deadmonkiefart wrote:One of the main advantages of insurgents IRL is that they have superior numbers.

er.. no.... one of the main advantages of an insurgency is that they neither abide by the rules of nor can be identified as a Conventional army.

the civilian class is a non combatant class, but will be critical as a collaborative element to aid the Insurgents. there's a bunch of other logic to them that make killing them a very bad idea for individual conventional army soldiers AND the conventional army team in general.

the insurgents in game right now are *grossly* overpowered. people who disagree .. it's simple .. they don't get it. the Insurgents faction .. if modelled correctly .. should have a VERY slim chance of winning. They should be all about preventing the enemy from winning. people are just too conditioned to how BF2 works and think that whatever army they have spawned as should be able to go and spawn camp their enemy's last base. that's not how they should be in the mod. they should be all about clinging to their last CPs and hoping that the enemy runs out of resources before achieving victory.

what we are trying to model is some plausible metaphor for an insurgency. not a conventional army with different uniforms and tactics. a civilian class is intended to move the metaphor further towards being plausible as well as an indirect "nerf" to the Insurgents faction. Most of the "nerfs" we implement are by notching "realism" up a level. either through direct characteristics changes [eg: this weapon should do more damage versus this target type] or more indirect metaphoric changes [insurgents without civilian collaborators will be severely disadvantaged].

PlayPR! · Post by **PlayPR!** » 2007-03-14 04:49

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman']the insurgents in game right now are *grossly* overpowered. people who disagree .. it's simple .. they don't get it. the Insurgents faction .. if modelled correctly .. should have a VERY slim chance of winning. They should be all about preventing the enemy from winning. people are just too conditioned to how BF2 works and think that whatever army they have spawned as should be able to go and spawn camp their enemy's last base. that's not how they should be in the mod. they should be all about clinging to their last CPs and hoping that the enemy runs out of resources before achieving victory.

YES! Exactly what I dislike about vBF2 and now its being fixed! Thank you so much Devs!

noir-colombia- · Post by **noir-colombia-** » 2007-03-14 05:18

a problem and a question:

1. ok i have a problem WHAT THE HELL CAN DO A CIVILIAN ON A ACTION PACKED GAME IF HE CANT SHOOT THINGS!!

i always play as an insurgent because the servers doesnt swap teams and its very annoying when u wanna test the usmc weaponry.

i suggest to make the civilians as bots. because if i wanna play as a civilian , im gonna buy SIMS 2 (and take a virtual shower ..by the way).

2. WILL THE AIM DELAY be putted on all weapons? now u can make this work as seen on the SAW..

pd: good idea of the shovel

Skullening.Chris · Post by **Skullening.Chris** » 2007-03-14 05:35

Nice to hear the light AT will be limited. I noticed a lot of people use it strictly as AP lately

workingrobbie · Post by **workingrobbie** » 2007-03-14 05:37

Sounds awesome - keep up the good work guys.

Can't wait to 'build' a laterine with my new shovel so the commander can take a dump.

What other uses are there for a shovel?

Poi_Medic · Post by **Poi_Medic** » 2007-03-14 05:38

NO! Why must i leave for India when a new release is about to come out

causticbeat · Post by **causticbeat** » 2007-03-14 06:11

noir-colombia- wrote:a problem and a question:

1. ok i have a problem WHAT THE HELL CAN DO A CIVILIAN ON A ACTION PACKED GAME IF HE CANT SHOOT THINGS!!

be a general nuisance to the USMC... make the job of a cobra or A10 raping flags on basrah ALOT harder... ie theyll be penalized for killing insurgents so they cant just fire on eveyrthing they see right away

you could act as a spotter for fellow insurgents, i guess for the USMC if you wanted to

do your best to get in the way of the USMC is pretty much it.

Fenix16 · Post by **Fenix16** » 2007-03-14 06:15

The only problem that I have with player controlled civilians is that I can see them being heavily abused. As we dont know the specifics I cant say for sure, but im guessing that killing civilians results in a nice amount of ticket loss (say 10 or so). Well what happens when the insurgent team surrounds all their armor with civilians? IRL im sure that if the armor was a serious threat, it would be dealt with regardless of weither or not there were people who looked like civilians in the area.

Hfett · Post by **Hfett** » 2007-03-14 06:20

Fenix16 wrote:The only problem that I have with player controlled civilians is that I can see them being heavily abused. As we dont know the specifics I cant say for sure, but im guessing that killing civilians results in a nice amount of ticket loss (say 10 or so). Well what happens when the insurgent team surrounds all their armor with civilians? IRL im sure that if the armor was a serious threat, it would be dealt with regardless of weither or not there were people who looked like civilians in the area.

You should see that like a Riot against the US invading their country

If all the civilians are arround the armour, who will be defending their flags?

Maistros · Post by **Maistros** » 2007-03-14 06:28

Oh, and PS you can easily recognize a civilian insurgent because he's wearing fake Nike shoes.
hahaha

Post by **eggman** » 2007-03-14 06:38

Aircraft bombs on civilians is considered "collateral damage" and no penalty will be applied.

Civilians are out of shape and can't run as fast as a Conventional Army soldier. Knifing an insurgent is a metaphor for capturing them, no penalty is applied.

If an Insurgent is captured, the Conventional Army receives a small ticket bonus.

When an Insurgent is killed by means that penalise the killing team, the Insurgents receive a small ticket bonus. The individual player that did the killing receives a respawn time penalty the next time they die. The respawn penalties can accumulate and cap out at 5 minutes. You might never "get caught" (die) but if you do go on a civilian killing spree you will make the Insurgents stronger (more tickets) and when you do die you can go mentol like that German kid in the video when your respawn timer is 5 minutes.

Insurgents will need players who enjoy the Civilian class dynamics because the Insurgency will need civilian collaborators to be effective, both directly and metaphorically.

There are still other non Civilian classes to be played within the Insurgency and 5 other factions with v0.6, but if you can't manage to move your mouse down an inch and select one of them I hope you enjoy SIMS 2.

Fenix16 · Post by **Fenix16** » 2007-03-14 06:40

'[R-PUB wrote:Hfett']You should see that like a Riot against the US invading their country

If all the civilians are arround the armour, who will be defending their flags?

Well yes but considering the fact that all the cities have been evacuated (according to the usual map description), these would be more of the "im an insurgent but I lost my gun" type of civilians.

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman']

There are still other non Civilian classes to be played within the Insurgency and 5 other factions with v0.6, but if you can't manage to move your mouse down an inch and select one of them I hope you enjoy SIMS 2.

ROFL

Just curious, but is the "knifing = capture" rule the same for the insurgents vs the USMC?

Gaa and one last thing, is there a limit on the civ class? What if the whole team went civilians?

Post by **eggman** » 2007-03-14 06:48

Insurgent Combatants or Civilians cannot capture Conventional Army soldiers.

Civilians cannot capture flags, so an entire team of them would not be very effective for very long.

Maistros · Post by **Maistros** » 2007-03-14 06:49

If the whole team went civilians they would lose very quickly, since Civilians can't capture flags. It's cause they're wearing knock-off nikes.. they just can't jump high enough to grab the flags.. should they have been wearing real DUNKS, they'd be able to reach the flag.