Squad-Based Intelligence - Minimap Discussion

[JuniperM40]

Z.user']what about when you zoom in to look down your sights.

Same position. The gun's centre-of-fire is always in the direct centre of your screen. There were other discussions on this prior; as the DEVs couldnt implement a "lean" or "free gun" motion due to this in the BF2 engine.

... hence, no difference

I think its fine where it is.

Thats why I said to make it an option (client side), just like transparency or "fixed vs rotate-the-map" view. This way, you can keep it up there, and I can keep it down there. =) (...Not everyone uses "WSAD" either)

You can make it transparent in your options if its an eye sore!

No, it's not an eyesore at all.. it's just not in an easily refocused/intuitive place in your view.
(In fact, I dont think you really read my post...). Nonetheless,

Imagine driving, and instead of looking down at your spedometer, you had to look "up and right" (or up and left), to see your speed. That'd get real annoying, real quick. =)

It's just counter-intuitive, thats all.

- JM40.

[[PTG]Z.user]

I'm too hung over to answer
I see you point mate, i think that people who play PR came from BF2..i did and i'm pretty used to give a quick glance to the top right. At the end of the day each to their own.

Its good to ask questions and try new things though so fair play to ya!

[Nickbond592]

it does take up a lot of space and many of us are used to it now but
how about getting rid of it and mapping it to the M button
i know its been sugested before (a lot)

but would a soldier in RL have a perminant / flip down GPS on his helmet? (actualy that sounds cool perhaps when you press M it scrolls down from the top so its not there all of the time?

[Cyber-Couch]

I'm still all for getting rid of the minimap. I think most GPS are open already for easy viewing. But they usually don't carry them around infront of their face all the time.

[A-10Warthog]

as helpful as it is, i think the whole thing needs to go.

[mrmong]

the minimap sort of has a compass if you select it to move about.

[saxojon]

A-10WarthogPilot']as helpful as it is, i think the whole thing needs to go.

Hello TK-bonanza!

[hoc_xfirestormx]

well see the problem is that the map is used to indicate attack points. we cant just say "no map" because then people will shoot everyone they see. itll take a lot of the movement out of the game.

what if squad leaders just got minimaps!? now that i would be all for. you'd have to communicate with your squad at all times. or squad leaders would be the only ones that could see the other players on their team. the other people would get minimaps with just the map, no players. this way, the squad leader would have to look and see where the other forces were and everyone would have to be in groups. ohhhh that would kick ***.

[fuzzhead]

Ive merged two topics talking about the minimap.

Keep things civil, some good ideas coming from this thread.

[jerkzilla]

First off, I'd like to point out that Snipers are not always campers. And the limited info for lone wolfs would probably promote sniper TEAMS (which is realistic) , whose primary role is not, contrary to what I've heard here and there, to cover allied movements (that being the DM's role) , but to provide info to the commander, to take out important enemy targets (thats in real life; in PR, it's more like to wipe out whole squads) and deny potential routes for the enemy.
I think the insurgents shouldn't suffer from the reduced info bit as I don't think they're meant to fight as grouped squads.
Though I also thinks it's best to leave the minimap only for the squad leader as well as implementing the alternate location for it.

[Croix]

fuzzhead']Ive merged two topics talking about the minimap.

Keep things civil, some good ideas coming from this thread.

Cool, thank you much.

as helpful as it is, i think the whole thing needs to go.

I tend to agree with you but for some things, like navigation in fast-moving aircraft, it's almost a necessity because the draw distance is relatively short.

[El_Vikingo]

Use the MAP, not minimap.

USE transparency.

[Croix]

Use the MAP, not minimap.

USE transparency.

I did, until I realized how disadvantaged I was against any person competent in the use of the minimap... a single night of playing.

I loved the way it cleared up the on-screen clutter, I just didn't love the way it made me feel to know that others had a huge advantage over me on the field.

The minimap is the holy grail to lone wolves because it emboldens them. It gives them confidence of enemy movements and positions, and allows them to proceed at much quicker paces than any 'real' army because they know they don't actually have to secure the area - they can simply spot-spam a few key locations and they'll know where the enemy is.

Before you call me out for being an exploiter or anything, I try to refrain from this tactic myself unless I know it's an enemy soldier or unit I'm spotting. I actually try and check to see what I'm looking to shoot at before I actually shoot, which has led me to die a few times (but it feels soo good).

Anyway, I think the change of pace in game play would be a good thing. There's a lot more unorganized 'run and gun' stuff that as it stands is a very successful tactic, especially in densely forested, hilly environs (Hills to Hyamyong or whatever it is... ). In reality, run and gun is a desperation move, it's not something that modern armies employ when they can help it. Insurgents on the other hand...

[hoc_xfirestormx]

First off, I'd like to point out that Snipers are not always campers. And the limited info for lone wolfs would probably promote sniper TEAMS (which is realistic) , whose primary role is not, contrary to what I've heard here and there, to cover allied movements (that being the DM's role) , but to provide info to the commander, to take out important enemy targets (thats in real life; in PR, it's more like to wipe out whole squads) and deny potential routes for the enemy.
I think the insurgents shouldn't suffer from the reduced info bit as I don't think they're meant to fight as grouped squads.
Though I also thinks it's best to leave the minimap only for the squad leader as well as implementing the alternate location for it.

i agree about snipers not camping all the time. what im saying is snipers should make sure they are in the best position for their team, not for their score. if they are shooting right in front of their teams position, they are missing the tank thats flanking their team. i always spot before i shoot when im sniper. thats the way it should be done. sadly, its rarely done that way.

i think the minimap is in the right place, since its out of the way, so you do have to take your eyes off the middle of the screen. its more realistic (not realistic, but MORE realistic). its like you are pulling out your GPS every time you look up -- you are taking your eyes off the enemy, the same way you would do if you were looking down at your gps.

[Croix]

Are you trying to tell me that soldiers can accurately suss out their battlefield positions as well as enemy troop movements with naught but the flick of an eye while under fire and do this in under half a second?

Wow, why do people even talk anymore?

My point is, shifting your eyes is not analogous to checking a GPS unit in the field under the above conditions, I'm guessing.

[jerkzilla]

About the minimap... Sometimes I just wish that the action in BF2 happened a "few" more years in the future and the "Land Warrior" project had not been canceled... Anyway, the MINIMAP is not the holy grail of lone wolfing, it's what you see on it, but none the less it should be removed, for the ordinary grunt at least. The officer kit should give you access to it (this is to avoid one man squads). The pilot kit should also have it, since, as it has already been said, view distance is pretty low and it helps you align your aircraft when you want to attack something thats not marked with an order. Don't know if minimap limiting can be done though.

[hoc_xfirestormx]

Are you trying to tell me that soldiers can accurately suss out their battlefield positions as well as enemy troop movements with naught but the flick of an eye while under fire and do this in under half a second?

Wow, why do people even talk anymore?

My point is, shifting your eyes is not analogous to checking a GPS unit in the field under the above conditions, I'm guessing.

well i always clear the area before i look on up to ma map. and i would think a soldier would keep his gun ready in case he needs to drop the gps and fire. so the real question is, how long would it take to drop a gps and bring your gun up? if it was a life and death situation, you'd probably do it pretty damn fast. think about reaction time as well. the enemy has plenty of time to kill you if youre looking up at your minimap and not looking at the center of your screen, just like if you were looking down at a gps tracking system. THAT was my point. people want it to be more convenient to look at. im saying it should be less convenient to look at. we are in agreement, if you look at the context.

read the whole thread and all my posts please. i definitely said A) we shouldnt be able to see our own forces unless we are the squad leader (which would be the substitute for commander backing and briefing before a "mission") and B) normal inf should just get maps. not magical "troop-pointer-outers". just gps's so that they can see where the SL wants them to go.

[Soulis6]

Sounds good. I wouldn't mind just having a normal map for squad members and a gps (taking up the whole screen, like the current map) for Squad leaders.