Ok, let's talk engineers...

Artnez · Post by **Artnez** » 2005-09-17 05:15

This may seem drastic, but I say remove them altogether.

I'm not in the military, nor will I ever be.. so correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Engineer Battalions are not forward assault units. Yes, they occasionally have to disable mine fields, build bridges, etc under enemy fire but they don't actually participate in the head-on combat. Their weapons are used for the defensive only while they are doing their job.

You shouldn't see engineers running around fighting in close quarters.. it doesnt make any sense. Now, if you strip the engineers from their primary weapon and only give them, say, a pistol to defend themselves and allow them to retain the ability to fix vehicles (not necessarily with the wrench.. maybe more realistic), you are kind of wasting a class. Very few people will want to run around with a pistol, and hold down the mouse button to fix a vehicle.

There are just aren't enough people in the server to include all of these different classes (it deters from the battle, imho).

That was from a logical standpoint...

Now from a gameplay standpoint..

It's sort of strange to see a tank recieve damage and fall back.. then see the crew (1 guy) hop out and start repairing his vehicle with a wrench.

It would make more sense for them to retreat and repair their vehicles at a "station" of some sort.

That way, you have yourselves one more class opened up. What class should that be?

Post by **Evilhomer** » 2005-09-17 06:25

Combat engineers are infantry trained soldiers, with the ability to have craft skills. There are some engineers who specilise in field improvised armoured repair, there are thos who are into minefield detecion, and disposal. The missions that require a unit to travel over heavy terrain will require a combat eningeer to make a path way. You think that it's spec ops that run around with packs of C4 blowing up UAV huts? Enginners also do it. The reason why engineers were put into the game was because they are so useful and diverse.

On the theme of repairing though, I agree that in later updates there should be a form of station to resupply, But then we could give the engineers the ability to use engineer specific FV vehicles. such as the Cheiftan.

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2005-09-17 07:17

Artnez.com wrote:You shouldn't see engineers running around fighting in close quarters.. it doesnt make any sense.

Combat engineers go where the infantry and armor does, right alongside with rifles, just like the platoon medics and hospital corpsmen. Combat engineer platoons may be attached to infantry battalion task forces or smaller CE elements may be attached to companies and platoons. They receive combat arms training in small unit tactics, land navigation, small arms and commo, but they also receive extensive training in field fortifications, bridging, mine/countermine warfare and demolitions.

Special operations forces with individual operator specialties may have engineer/demolitions specialists who function as part of a fire-team or squad-sized unit, so they are always in the same shit as their fellow soldiers.

Psycho_Sam · Post by **Psycho_Sam** » 2005-09-17 13:35

What weapons would a combat engineer have? Surely not a Shotgun? If you decide to make them only have a pistol maybe that free slot could carry 2 C4 charges as they do demolition works to. Giving them 2 charges still makes Spec Ops useful as they have more weapons and a better primary weapon to start with.

Post by **Evilhomer** » 2005-09-17 16:14

They carry a standard rifle, mi6/SA80A2 etc etc, but I don't think they should carry a spanner, I think a tank should have to go to a shop to be repaired... but this has been said in countless threads so no point in bringing it back up again!

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2005-09-17 16:48

yeah, give them a rifle and whatever else theyre supposed to have. especially in the US marines (im most familiar with them) they and everyone else are riflemen first, so you are likely to see them right up there in the fray.

{GD}Snake13 · Post by **{GD}Snake13** » 2005-09-18 00:19

They should have Clays and C4 as well. Is there a AT mine in the same league as the claymore? something that can be setup relatively quickly?

Omniassiah · Post by **Omniassiah** » 2005-09-18 22:25

Most of my friends in the US military are 12Bs(think they changed the MOS code since i got out in 2004) or combat engineers. Next to MPs they are the most heavily armed section of the military. CEs carry the normal combination of M16A2,M16/M203s,M4s, M249s,AT-4s, and M240Bs. In addition they carry M107s, M19s, Javelins and M2s. thier vehicles usually come with (forgive the spelling on some of theses) TOWs, Mic-Licks, and Volcano Mine layers. In most operations they are just heavily infantry. By the way liked to thank A co. 4th engineers, 4th Inf. (Mech.) Division for pulling me out of a few tough spots.

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2005-09-23 18:10

{GD}Snake13 wrote:They should have Clays and C4 as well. Is there a AT mine in the same league as the claymore? something that can be setup relatively quickly?

Well, any AT mine can be hastily prepared rather than buried. Someone suggested an alternate fire option that "buried" the mine rather than just setting it on the surface or tossing it. Also, there are off-route AT mines. One of the things we'd like to include is the SLAM (Selectable Lightweight Attack Munition) which can function as a demolition charge or an anti-tank/anti-personnel mine. It is issued to special operations forces and sometimes light infantry (including airborne and air assault) combat engineers.

As I said in another thread, claymores are appropriate in-game for many of the classes, not just engineer. Depending on the mission factors, a few men in each rifle squad may carry one in addition to their basic load. They are used by infantry for perimeter security, to initiate an ambush or deter pursuit. Setting up an actual AT minefield or another carefully prepared obstacle would be the job of the combat engineers, but infantry units who don't have attached engineer support may have some AT mines at their disposal and definitely some Claymores.

DAWG · Post by **DAWG** » 2005-09-23 20:53

It would be nice to see all the infantry units use authentic weaponry. I can understand peoples concerns about the engineer class, they can perform miracles in the field with that spanner, perhaps it could be coded so that field engineers can only repair a limited amount of battle damage to keep the wheels greased as they say, but reintroduce heavy shops like they had in BF42, it was always more interesting having to fall back from a position in search of repairs. The only other thing I really dislike about BF2 engineers and medics is the ability to turn a tank into a mobile workshop or hospital, it makes the gameplay very Command and Conquer, in my personal opinion.