a suggestion about AA guns

charliegrs · Post by **charliegrs** » 2007-03-31 02:30

i dont know if anyone has posted about this before but im sorry if im re-posting.

anyway, i love to defend my bases with the AA guns in maps like gulf of oman and basrah. the only problem is, when im firing at jets {not so much helicopters} it seems like no matter how many rounds i put into a jet, i can never down it. i still to this day cant down an F-18 or A-10 even after pumping it totally full of lead. and trust me im good at it, i know how to lead etc. and i get many direct shots but i think the AA gun must be incredibly underpowered. like i said, this isnt really a problem with choppers, i can down them considering they are slower and tend to hover which means i can put more bullets in them. has anyone else noticed this? it pretty much makes my AA gun ineffective. is this something that is going to be addressed in the next version?

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-03-31 02:35

well , mixing the lag with the hit box problem , an AA gun is very useless

.

maybe you can make that when the bullet is near a plane , "explot" , like the WW2 guns

, at least the plane will surffer the splash damage

ReaperMAC · Post by **ReaperMAC** » 2007-03-31 03:29

77SiCaRiO77 wrote:well , mixing the lag with the hit box problem , an AA gun is very useless .

maybe you can make that when the bullet is near a plane , "explot" , like the WW2 guns , at least the plane will surffer the splash damage

Pretty much like flak

bobfish · Post by **bobfish** » 2007-03-31 06:26

I've flown a fair bit on Oman and to be fair, I don't think I've ever been hit by AA, no matter how much they fire at me. It's just like the cannon from the Essex, that rarely destroyed aircraft by itself unless they were stupid enough to fly right at it.

Air defense needs to be beefed up on the maps with planes imo.

IAJTHOMAS · Post by **IAJTHOMAS** » 2007-03-31 08:11

bobfish wrote:I've flown a fair bit on Oman and to be fair, I don't think I've ever been hit by AA, no matter how much they fire at me. It's just like the cannon from the Essex, that rarely destroyed aircraft by itself unless they were stupid enough to fly right at it.

Air defense needs to be beefed up on the maps with planes imo.

If it is, it needs to be done in such a way as to not make choppers too vulnerable, which has always been a problem when DICE were playing with the vanilla AA.

bobfish · Post by **bobfish** » 2007-03-31 08:58

Well, how do lock-ons work? Is a helo the same as a plane? Or can a weapon be made to lock-on to only planes?

charliegrs · Post by **charliegrs** » 2007-03-31 23:11

i dont think you guys understood what i was saying. i have absolutely no problem hittin planes with a billion rounds from the AA guns, its just that i think the rounds are so weak i can never destroy any planes. personally i think its pretty easy to hit the planes, if you know how to lead well. and yes i know, the A-10 is a pretty heavily armored plane but still i cannot down it even if i put so many rounds into it my AA gun overheats. and i cant even down a thin skinned F-18 either. i think the Devs should definitly up the damage done by AA guns.

Longbow* · Post by Longbow* » 2007-03-31 23:48

charliegrs
Think of choppers . If AA guns will do more damage , it will be close to impossible to fly choper ..

Soulja · Post by **Soulja** » 2007-04-01 00:07

Make em a flak cannon or something like an old Skysweeper AAA gun. We used to have one of those down at the base, was pretty impressive. That way you would just get the splash damage and wouldnt have to worry about direct hits not doing anything. And plus another nice think, I'm sure a 75mm HE Flak round from a Skysweeper would do nice damage to an A-10 if you managed to score a direct hit.

Deadmonkiefart · Post by **Deadmonkiefart** » 2007-04-01 01:00

AAA should do more damage to just about everything. Right now they are almost useless.

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-04-01 01:16

the AAA in POE2 and DCon is like the real one (excep in the damage

) , every bullet you shoot is a hit , not like the PR and USI AAA, you miss like 70 % of the bullets .

and BTW who cares about balance , choopers are a EASY target for AAA in RL.

Dyer |3-5| · Post by **Dyer |3-5|** » 2007-04-01 18:43

Longbow* wrote:charliegrs
Think of choppers . If AA guns will do more damage , it will be close to impossible to fly choper ..

Think of the infantry...It's almost IMPOSSIBLE to take down a chopper or plane right now (Mainly speaking of cobras, who do the most damage)
IRL if choppers used the tactics they do ingame they would be taken out almost instantly. They are not that strong, case in point, the Apache that was shot down in Iraq by AK-47 fire several years ago. Now try to shoot down anything with something smaller than a tank in PR. Point made.

Post by **Vaiski** » 2007-04-01 20:21

77SiCaRiO77 wrote:the AAA in POE2 and DCon is like the real one (excep in the damage ) , every bullet you shoot is a hit , not like the PR and USI AAA, you miss like 70 % of the bullets .

and BTW who cares about balance , choopers are a EASY target for AAA in RL.

Hit ratios kind of depends what aaa system and ranges we are talking.

With oldschool manual systems what you mostly see in PR you won't get much more than 10-25% hit ratios on moving target. I'd guess for modern radarguided or whatsoever new system something like 70-90% hit ratios are pretty normal. Depending on range too ofcorse.

I served in those old crappy manual anti-air-artillery unit (ZU-23 aa cannon, same as PoE) and we got something like 20+% hitratios on low altitude jet targets. Had clear cloudless daylight conditions and target range varied from something like 300 to 1500meters. Same time radar guided mobile AA cannon (Marksman system) had 90% hit ratio on same target. Not sure what range they were shooting at though.

Modernised ZU-23 with all those fancy automatic fire systems and laserrangemeters etc. had pretty similar hit ratios as we did with manual (20%+).

But what PR really needs in my opinion are proper sights for AAA weapons.

Liquid_Cow · Post by **Liquid_Cow** » 2007-04-01 21:43

This is "Project Reality," and if you want more effective AAA it will not be very "Realistic."

AAA is dead, a thing of the past. The only militarys that still use gun-only AAA system do so because they can't afford to replace it anything better. They make pretty tracer light shows at night and kill more friendlies than enemies. Most western militarys don't even have a dedicated gun AA system any more.

At one time mobile AAA had an important roll as fire support for infantry, but today its largely been replaced by IFV's.

AAA/SAMs in general is one area which PRM will never be able to be truely realistic. On the modern low to medium intensity battlefield, there will almost never be a time when one side does not have clear air superiority. Even should a high intentist conflict begin (US vs China), most airspace would be red or blue, very little would be contested thanks to modern high powered SAM systems (like the Patriot or Hongqi-1

. In OMAN, for example, the MEC would not have any airpower, as the US B-52's and F-15E's would have destroyed the airport the night before the attack. MEC fixed battery AAA would be destroyed by Cobra's and other CAS in the opening round of the battle. All that would survive would be mobile AAA and MANPAD's, and they would be of little effect against the US jets flying in the race track at 40,000ft dropping PGM's when called on by Forward Air Controllers.