minigun realism

[DaveOnrefni]

Is it possible to make a (BF2) minigun into "two" guns firing as fast as the game engine's limit (900?), slightly timed differently so you essentially have something along the lines of 1800rounds per min? (while keeping the minigun skin/model etc)
(edit: or.. would that cause some crazy lag...? =( )

...and/or possibly add a small amount of deviation so there's just some spread instead of it being like an accurate laser...thing? (well, maybe it's just cause I've fired from a moving chopper, causing the my shots to pretty much circle around the enemy, yet not hit them. ...well, due to that being where my aim went when the chopper moved. I understand that they'll hit where they're aimed. ah screw it, i just answered my own... bleh)

(Edit: [to the above post] yeah, isn't a single trigger pull like atleast 10 rounds? ...or was it that by the time the first shot hits the target, 10 more are on their way.... bleh, yeah.)

[Soulja]

I like Dave's idea. That would work, but like he said it could cause lag.

[El_Vikingo]

Wouldn't this require remodelling of the EA original?

[Ironcomatose]

Well the tracer thing is up to you but i think everyone here would like a little more power in that gun. I mean come on its a mini gun!!

[Smitty4212]

Little bit of deviation would be nice.

Also, if one of those bullets hits you, that should be it. Realistically, it's unlikely you'd ever get hit by just one, but I imagine that with the shit netcode of BF2, sometimes quite a number of rounds can appear to hit but not actually register.

As for it becoming a gunship, I doubt this will happen. I've found that generally, it's A LOT more fun as a pilot to actually do something (i.e. to actually help out by taxiing people around), and most decent pilots would prefer to not just fly around if they could. Of course if no one is asking for rides, then I'm sure they'd have no problems just cruising around letting their gunners do work

[Long Bow]

I played Al-Basrah last night and for some reason there was only 20 people on the server? I was manning the minin gun and the BH pilot would transport when needed and then we would strafe the village while the team tried to cap. It worked well but I had the same problems everyone mentioned, seeing an insurgent and lighting up the whole area around him but not getting the kill. I don't know what the solution is, I frear that splash damage would allow me to kill guys around corners etc. I don't think that is really fair. If the damage of each round was increased to instakill this could work. If we're limited to 900 rounds per minute the instakill could simulate the additional rounds that should be, in theory, on the way.

Cheers,

[AfterDune]

I played Al-Basrah last night and for some reason there was only 20 people on the server?

Well, there were some problems with Gamespy, which made it impossible for many users to log in to BF2 (some could log in, others couldn't).

[Long Bow]

Thanks for the explination, seems like there have been issues with logging in over the past few days . It was different with only 20 players total kind of nice for a change to actually be able to get a vehicle.

[Dyer |3-5|]

If you haven't noticed from some of my posts, I HATE when the airpower is overpowering, but I really think the mini guns need a big boost, at least to vBf2 1.0 levels. It would even give the enemy a reason to target it...

[interceptor7]

Realistically, the miniguns should have the same damage as the G3s (same round IRL). As far as HE in 7.62x51, if anyone has ever seen that IRL, please let me know. I'm not aware they exist. Splash damage wouldn't be very realistic.

Miniguns have a lot of deviation of point-of-impact (think 6' circle at 200m or so.), but there's a HECK OF A LOT of rounds going downrange. IOW, if you get hit once, you probably got hit 2-3 or more times. Realisticaly, getting hit with a minigun should be instant death. The best way to balance this out is to limit how much ammo is carried (which is pretty realistic, BTW).

Personally, I'd like to see a more continous "stream" of tracers, just so I can "walk" the damn thing to the target a little faster.

[Smitty4212]

The tracers are fine as is, if you can't 'walk' the miniguns to the target then you must be blind. The maps are day time and if you watch certain videos of the miniguns being used in the bright sun, the tracers are much less visible.

It looks like one round = kill, would be the best option, to account for the fact that it's unlikely you could survive being hit by miniguns, since you'd probably be torn to shreds.

[interceptor7]

The tracers are fine as is, if you can't 'walk' the miniguns to the target then you must be blind. The maps are day time and if you watch certain videos of the miniguns being used in the bright sun, the tracers are much less visible.

It looks like one round = kill, would be the best option, to account for the fact that it's unlikely you could survive being hit by miniguns, since you'd probably be torn to shreds.

The problem with the tracers is that the interval between them is too long. By the time the second tracer is on it's way, you lost your frame of reference from the first one due to the movement of the helo (and God knows it's hard to find a BH pilot that can set up the gunner with a steady shooting platform!). Iron sights could be an option, too.

As far as damage goes, either step up the cyclic rate (not sure if it's possible), or, as you said, make it one round/one kill.

[Smitty4212]

I think the cyclic rate is set at 900 RPM (someone mentioned that figure earlier, not sure if it's correct). So yeah, if it could be bumped above that, which it doesn't seem like it can be, increase the damage of each individual round. Basically give the miniguns the Phalanx treatment

[Liquid_Cow]

Splash damage wouldn't be very realistic.

When a bullet hits something solid it makes sharpnel, both from the bullet fragmenting and the target fragmenting. If the bullet hits at an angle, it and some debris will ricochet. Throw several hundred bullets into the target zone each second and you'll get quite a bit of splash damage.

[Soulja]

When a bullet hits something solid it makes sharpnel, both from the bullet fragmenting and the target fragmenting. If the bullet hits at an angle, it and some debris will ricochet. Throw several hundred bullets into the target zone each second and you'll get quite a bit of splash damage.

He's right, Splash damage on a Minigun is VERY real, even without a hard surface. Ever seen one of those videos where a bullet hits a steel plate or something and pieces of it go everywhere? Now think of that with 40 rounds hitting the same spot EVERY SECOND. And that's on about half of the newer one's potential ROF. The minigun IRL will shred anything it hits and anything near where it hits from shrapnel. I heard a report when we were training with them where in Somalia people were literally torn to pieces when they were 10-15 ft. from the impact point because of the fragments from the bullets, buildings, rocks, and anything else that was in the way. So splash is real.

[interceptor7]

When a bullet hits something solid it makes sharpnel, both from the bullet fragmenting and the target fragmenting. If the bullet hits at an angle, it and some debris will ricochet. Throw several hundred bullets into the target zone each second and you'll get quite a bit of splash damage.

Sure, but only if it happens only when the bullets hit something really hard and at certain angles. Say, the side of a tank or a concrete sidewalk at a shallow angle. IRL, bullets hitting dirt don't bounce around as a general rule.

Also, if you've ever been hit by a ricochet (I have), they usually hurt a bit, but hardly ever break skin. Once again it has to do with the angle it's coming from. It if bounces back at you, it won't do any damage (just sting a little). If you're downrange and it skids off the (concrete) floor, it can potentially kill you. 7.62 fired at concrete blocks (typical building material) at a perpendicular angle would just make a dent/hole on it.

The problem I see with "splash" from the minis is that I don't think the game can account for the different surfaces (especially ground surfaces). Also, as someone already mentioned, it'd be to easy to kill someone around a corner by just firing into the ground. The only way you'd be seriously hurt is if the bullet remained more or less intact and headed straight for you, and I doubt the game can track the bullet's path once it hits something. Once bullets become "shrapnel" they're not very harmful, unless you poke somebody's eye out with it

[El_Vikingo]

This shows the power of a minigun:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qgiUSEpg8Xc

j/k


Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf9bCebm4aE

Don't worry about the comparison, but lokk at the target!

[interceptor7]

The miniguns were given splash because the engine wont allow for the real life rate of fire to be modeled. Therefore they were given splash damage to compensate.

I figured that was the reason, but wouldn't it make more sense to up the damage? That way the guy hiding around a corner doesn't get killed by the "HE 7.62s"?

[Soulja]

Anyone who can name the creator of the M134 without a search gets a cookie.