What would you like to see be done with the Special Forces kit?

[JL]

the special forces player model looks so gay.. sorry, he just does.. gotta be a way to make him look tougher and not look so US.. or not so easily spotted.. what if you dressed him up like an insurgent? obviously the whole hidden SF guy would be done when people realized he wasn't on their mini map, or saw his red name (or lack of blue) .. but if PR didn't have players on the mini map and no name tags it would be all based on visual, and it would be possible a SF soldier could walk past an insurgent at the end of an alley and the insurgent just assumes its another insurgent and keeps going about his business? haha

[<S8>Inchon]

the special forces player model looks so gay.. sorry, he just does.. gotta be a way to make him look tougher and not look so US.. or not so easily spotted.. what if you dressed him up like an insurgent? obviously the whole hidden SF guy would be done when people realized he wasn't on their mini map, or saw his red name (or lack of blue) .. but if PR didn't have players on the mini map and no name tags it would be all based on visual, and it would be possible a SF soldier could walk past an insurgent at the end of an alley and the insurgent just assumes its another insurgent and keeps going about his business? haha

lol, and you thought friendly fire was bad before... I can't wait to be SF after this. You need to avoid your forces shooting at you, just as much as you need to avoid the enemy.

[Guerra]

Would be interesting to see if the Commander could assign squads SPEC OPS kits. With a maximum of say, 4 spec ops kits. Give them a silenced MP5, remove pistol. Parachutes would also be included. But one time use only. (If thats possible)

That way they can parachute down behind enemy lines, knock out artillery, etc.

[AnRK]

Do Rangers ever work alongside other units? I'm not sure if they're just a spec. ops unit or just ground pounders who blow stuff up and steal things (I think that's their general reason for employment anyway). If so that could provide some rational for a similar kit remaining, perhaps not with it's current loadout though.

[Soulja]

My opinion on the Special Forces kit is this. Make it a limited kit that can only be requested at a CP, not at a RP. Give it 4 or 5 SLAMS or C4. Give it a grappling hook.Give it a silenced pistol with only 1+2 clips to kill targets and stay quiet. And give it some way to spot targets for planes, choppers, and mortars or arty. And also, dunno if this is possible but give him a uplink to the commander. Also, give him less ammo. Seeing as a Special Forces soldier shouldn't be a kill whore. He's supposed to sneak around, blow shit up, and spot targets. The only time he should shoot is when he needs to defend himself,a tactical retreat or to take out single targets.


In my eyes that's the best solution to the whole SF whore problem.

[AnRK]

SFs in real life would be very well equipped, and seeming though they have the possibility of been hugely outnumbered behind enemy lines their gonna need a shit load of ammo to hold their own.

The problem with SF in my opinion as I said before and you've just mentioned, Is that people use it as a killing kit and not for it's real purpose.

[Soulja]

The ammo thing isn't for realism, but to make it less effective as a kit for killing.

[[T]Terranova7]

I've been pushing for removal or limit of the Spec Ops kit for a while now. I'd replace it with the CQC/CQB kit, which could be armed with a carbine rifle with it's respective optics (reflex sights anyone?), a couple of frags, knife and field dressing and some body armor. Mainly designed for urban combat, would be especially useful when structures with open interiors are created.

As for the Spec Ops, I'd personally prefer to see it done America's Army style. Basically having maps created with SF missions, equipment and balancing in mind. Most of the SF maps would be extraction and objective style game-modes.

But if we go with limiting the kit on all maps, I too would cater it towards recon/stealth type of gameplay. Suppressed carbine or SMG with limited ammunition. Unsilenced .45 caliber sidearm; very few magazines. Knife, grappling hook, SOFLAM and field dressings (perhaps the SF kit can hold a little more field dressings than the average kit). And finally some explosive devices (Not every nation uses SLAMS).

[{9thInf}GunnyMeyer]

Ummm, the way it is in Iraq, everyone can have reflex optics. Marines get their M16A4s with a generic cheapo red-dot sight and a forward post grip. So if you are going to have urban maps with Marines in them you should do it like so if you really want it realistic. Special Ops Personell are not made by their equipment. They are Special Ops because of their training for their, OMG, Special Operations that they carry out as the main mission... Spec Ops should not be in this game to begin with.

[bosco_]

Make it a CQB rifleman kit

[gazzthompson]

personal i say keep it , but do this with it.

1. limit it - dont know how many but limit it , mabye 4 on a 64 man server ?

2. reduce the mags for main weapon like 2, not for realism but to stop ppl using it as a attack weapon, also IRL if im right special forces do not engage unless they have to ? this should happen ingame. u should just spot infantry whistle on ur way to blow shit up.

3. more explosives ! to blow stuff up, atmo i only use SF kit on al basrah because u can blow cars and bridges good, mabye 1 or 2 C4 to blow up un-used tanks/APC's but have em like mines that when it moves it blows up like a booby trap ?

4. dont give em a silenced mp5!!!! when in iraq or afganistan i dont think they use mp5's if im right , m4's and the likes yes.

[jerkzilla]

I don't think the 9mm Mp5 ammo is powerful enough to punch through armor, it would have just a bit more damage than the Beretta.
I still say the SCAR would be best and if it will be a limited kit(s) and only given to a particular squad,and for the whole of that squad, how could it be whored?
More kit variants as I've posted before would be a bit more realistic in my opinion. I strongly doubt that EVERY special forces unit would only use M4s with some smoke grenades and 2 SLAMS (which, as posted by someone else, should be replaced with something else for the MEC and Chinese forces).
The Desert Conflict mod had some weird binoculars for the sniper. It seemed to lock on enemy vehicles, dunno what it did that for though.

[Dyer |3-5|]

I like the CQB rifleman idea, as that's what the M4 is supposed to be for. However, if it had the same equipment as rifleman, everybody would be using it instead of the regular rifleman kit!

Only way I can see it working is if the M4's damage could be made to decrease with distance. IRL, the 14.5in barrel on an M4 doesn't make it very effective past 150 yards. It's accurate, but the terminal ballistics just aren't there. However, I don't know if this effect could be recreated in-game.

According to the Navy SEALs the M4 can take out tagets easily at 300 meters and with some skill at 600 meters.

Back on topic, I agree with wasteland soldier completely, for once lol

[bobfish]

Effective range is what matters, and it's 300m on the m4, compared to the m16's 550m.

Make it into anything but spec ops.

[interceptor7]

According to the Navy SEALs the M4 can take out tagets easily at 300 meters and with some skill at 600 meters.

Back on topic, I agree with wasteland soldier completely, for once lol

Sure it can, with perfect shot placement (in-game, say, head-shot). IRL, the 5.56 relies HEAVILY on velocity for terminal ballistics performance. I can't remember the threshold exactly, but I think its 2800 fps. Below that, the 5.56 doesn't fragment or yaw reliably.

The problem with the M4 is that due to the short barrel, it's above the 2800 fps for less than 150 yds. Past that, it just makes neat .22 caliber holes. Sure, a .22 caliber hole through the heart or brain will definetely kill, but it's heavily dependent on shot placement.

Thats why it'd be good to severely limit the damage of the M4 past 150yds/m. It's both realistic, and would limit people grabbing the SF kit (or whatever it becomes, if anything) to go around just killing people. Once you do that, you can make it a CQB kit or anything else.

[G.Drew]

i like the idea of tha para kit

excellent use of these is on muttrah city, lil bird drops a full squad about 500 ft in the air and they do a para drop on a flag

alot safer than just doing a dust off when theres AA guns dotted all across tha map

thats y u got the SAS, Special Air Service
yes i know that the SAS dont normally work alongside the British army, but theres nothing to stop them

[Top_Cat_AxJnAt]

Do the marines, that is the standard US marines, no special forces section use the M4???

Becuase therefore Close quarter rifleman would be an excellent way of keeping the M4.

[Wasteland]

Back on topic, I agree with wasteland soldier completely, for once lol

Score! LOL.

But yeah, I just wanted to modify my earlier post to say only give the SF 1 + 1 mags for each of their guns.

WRT realism, SF are often required to spend very long times behind enemy lines, and trek through difficult terrain for very long distances. They take as little as they can get away with. If their mission is to do recon, or sneak in and out of some place unseen, they aren't going to get a SAW with a ton of ammo.

[xgayox]

Wheres the option to give them more equipment? I think they should get a heavy AT, a sword, and frag grenades. Oh yeah and they should be able to drive any vehicle/plane without a crewman or pilot kit.

[NavalLord]

I hope you're joking.