L-AT Limit- Why?

[eggman]

It's capped at 2 of each type per squad in v0.6. So you CAN have 2 LAT, 2 HAT and 2 Grenadiers. But NOT 5 LAT heh.

We have the ability to define that much more granularly (down to a kit by kit basis) and, if we wanted to .. we could probably make them relate to each other (but I dont want to do that).

It will get really confusing and create usability issues to try and shovel in "forced squad composition" but it's relatively easy and already done to limit the # of a particular kit type allowed in a squad.

Some folks are itching to ***** about anything.. so have at 'er.. tho keep in mind I am in a grumpy mood

[Clypp]

I don't mind a limit although I think it is unnecessary. The problem I see though is limited kits work through the request system. This means spawning on SL is not an option for the light AT member of the squad. Each time he is to respawn he has to either run alone to regoup or the SL has to run away from any nearby CP (a real pain) make a rally point and then he can grab the kit. This is too much hassle for a kit that may be only slightly useful, as it cannot kill anything other than light vehicles. I think many squads are just going to not worry about a L-AT guy until armored resistance at which time they have to do the "Everyone grab AT" trick anyway.

If rockets are increased to 2 I can be happy with this but then APCs are doomed so I don't really like that idea either.

The best possible solution would be a limit per squad system that does not require the quartermaster system. In that case, the Devs win at everything.

The L-AT system is working fine, why mess with it?

[MADTKBOY]

Any chance of 1 lmg per squad limit? What with only 4 lmgs per team and all its still crazy if one squad takes more than one of those things..
I must be getting annoying by now but now that i've heard about squad limits I just cant help myself =p..

[eggman]

The L-AT system is working fine, why mess with it?

Cuz we're designing the mod and don't agree that it's working fine. When you have 10,000 hours dumped into your game project I'll play it and be subject to your decisions

[VipersGhost]

Lol, well there needs to be a change...it sounds like you guys have done a lot of work around the "kit" system. I dont like the AT as it is now...the whole...tank is here "you 4 dead guys spawn AT"....it happens ALL the time...hence why tanks rarely last lone when assualting a position. pretty soon at least 6-8 guys have AT instantly and are popping up on SL leaders...boom boom...its over. Whatever comes in will be good I'm sure.

[Clypp]

eggman']Cuz we're designing the mod and don't agree that it's working fine. When you have 10,000 hours dumped into your game project I'll play it and be subject to your decisions

Fine. I actually kept pushing that line down when I made the post and kind of forgot about it. I apologize.

You do understand the concern about having to use the quartermaster system though right? Can the Squad Leader carry a few extra kit bags he can throw on the ground for recent spawners or something that require more basic kits? (Half serious suggestion)

I think a large reason that armor and APCs do not last long is that they are driven right into the mouth of the enemy. Often when a tanks sits back and oversees an area as infantry takes it the tank will last until a Cobra punches a hole in it.

[causticbeat]

I rarely see that happen. Usually by the time you have respawned, the vehicle has moved.

maybe you play with nubs who only make a vehicle last 3 minutes

[Phoenova]

eggman']It's capped at 2 of each type per squad in v0.6. So you CAN have 2 LAT, 2 HAT and 2 Grenadiers. But NOT 5 LAT heh.

We have the ability to define that much more granularly (down to a kit by kit basis) and, if we wanted to .. we could probably make them relate to each other (but I dont want to do that).

That system sounds really awesome, and it seems like there will be many more balanced squads out in the field. Though, does this 2 kit per squad thing work for EVERY kit? Will kits like Basic Rifleman, AP, Crewman and Pilot be set at a limited amount per squad?

[eggman]

"base classes" (those you select from the spawn menu screen) are not subject to any sort of limitation, nor are pilot and crewman kits.

The limit of 2 of any type is just a way of keeping it simple, yet still "leashed". Realistically, for a balanced squad, you dont need more than 2 of any type .. but a "mission specific" squad can certainly use 2 of a specific type.

[[3rd]Sonders]

eggman']It's capped at 2 of each type per squad in v0.6. So you CAN have 2 LAT, 2 HAT and 2 Grenadiers. But NOT 5 LAT heh.

Grenadiers? The Grenadiers are getting limited?

And will this system apply for Support weapons too?

[ReadMenace]

Sonders']Grenadiers? The Grenadiers are getting limited?

And will this system apply for Support weapons too?

Grenadiers are getting ACOGs and other optics soon... Underslung GL + Optic = CRYING OUT FOR A LIMITATION.

[[3rd]Sonders]

Oh yea, forgot about that. But my support question still stands for eggman.

[eggman]

all limited kits except for pilots, crewman and officers are subject to a 2 kits of that type per squad maximum.

[[3rd]Sonders]

Cool, thanks.

[[WAW]TOTENKOPF]

i heard the law is coming back de to its affordability and its "hut busting" ability. Marines dont face enemy armor anymore.

[Top_Cat_AxJnAt]

Although generally thought of as a Vietnam War era weapon which has been superseded by more powerful and sophisticated designs such as the SMAW and AT4, the M72 LAW has found a new lease of life in the ongoing (2006) operations in Iraq by the US Army and Afghanistan by the Canadian Army. The low cost and light weight of the LAW, combined with a proliferation of lightly-armored targets, make it ideal for the type of urban combat seen in Iraq and Afghanistan.

You are right.

In regards to the L-AT kit limited form, will only a single disposable rocket be carried and not 2.

Due to the inability to prevent the reloding of L-AT weapons from ammo bags, i believe 1 rocket is enough, 2 rockets, combined with relodes and possibly another 2 rockets (2 L-AT players), could and would be too powefull, even become a serious threat to MTB's.

However, i do realise, like always overall ammoutn of and type of equipeemtn must be limited due to other restraints (map size, player movemetns/view ext.) but i think L-AT shoudl be equipted with atleast 1 frag grenade and 2 smokes.
Having just an assult rifle, rocket and a smoke, means the L-AT kit is actualy quite weak compared to say the rifle man, who has the ability to have unlimited smokes, frags and has a scope. It is also hihgly unrealistic (RL possible to have: L-AT+GL+frags), and due to increased realism in other aspects of gameplay (same areas as restraints) an increase ammount/tpye of equipement should be allowed, namely 1 frags, 1smokes extra.

More smokes never do any harm. And iF any are used to using fireteams, you will know, the more different types of BASIC equipement (smokes, frags) a kit can carry, the better and with 6 man squads, no. of different types of kits you can have is extremely limited.
L-AT players, will often find them selves in an assult group (not supress, hang back), and therefore will engage for predomitaly in Close quarter combat, where smokes and especialy frags are a must, with many core kits not having frags, it is a real *****, with the L-AT rocket being often a necessity IF it could be complemented by frags, i am sure all tactical type players would be extremely gratefully.

[Long Bow]

Its interesting reading through all these posts and picking out all the little by the Devs. Things start adding up to me. Changing the kit load outs, selective limiting of kits etc. That when viewed in the 0.5 framework seem like it will bring a ton of problems. HOWEVER when you add in the new firebases available through the commander changes you now have a place to pick up all these kits. This then answers the question of why defend the new firebase... All this 06-0.7 stuff is just too good, the wait is painfull sometimes

Cheers,

[Rick_the_new_guy]

Perhaps a way to make the quartermaster system check the loadouts of your squad and if you already have a support man he tells you something like "sorry, but other squads need support firepower too" kinda thing?
Just throwing out ideas.

3+ reps to MADTKBOY
Excellent post, you got egg to give us a nice update.
Granted others have posted this, but like all things, timeing is everthing.

So we know the L. A.T. will be limited, and two/squad.
So we know the GL will be limited and two/squad.
We know the Anti-infantry will be broken down and recycled (claymores going to engy so they can defend the bunkers and firebases they build with their own shovell).
We know the Spec Ops will remain one of the seven kits.

That leaves us with three new kits....

We got to have an assault class kit with flash bangs, G. Hook, smoke, shotgun, silencer pistal, and tear gas included.

Gee, there are two more kits to make, and I do not have a clue what to set them up as.

I was thinking a demolisions expert kit.
_

I need data or winks.

[[T]Terranova7]

Don't forget guys, people used the L-AT to take out other targets besides ground based vehicles also. Think Muttrah, can't land the damn littlebird thanks to the abundance of RPG wielding MEC soldiers. Not to mention some of the other new things like the deployable bunkers & firebases with the new commander features coming in 0.6, would prove quite ineffective with L-AT being as common as they are.

On another note, I assume the "HAT" kit is Heavy AT. Isn't it better to keep this kit limited on a team level? Otherwise with the upcoming system, with 6 squads you have the potential of 12 players carrying Heavy AT missile systems, which is a bit overkill if you ask me.

[lonelyjew]

I assumed that there would still be total number of kits available to the team, just that one squad couldn't have all the lmg's or light at's.