Why is Anti Air placement so absurd?

[Rhino]

You can have other ways to counteract well placed AA. Simply dumbing down their existence is what BF2 did (only to a much greater extent).

or we could just get rid of them from the map totaly

the fact is that 1 good AA placemant on a map like muttrah can deverstate the outcome of the map, as shown. To cut down on that you need to put AA guns so they can only be used in certina areas, and not able to shoot across the entier map.

or if you prefered we could put back in the stock AA stinger stands (which are tottaly unrealistic btw) if you would like?

[Mongolian_dude]

Rhino']even if you took a boat by the time you got to the docks a MEC squad was already there opening the champain

if the game was not blanced, you would not be playing it cos it would not be fun.

LOLOL
I dont know why, but i have this image of an MEC light at, rifleman and medic all standing shaking hands chatting in arabic about their great sucsess. Then a MEC spec ops comes running out of a building witha big grin on his face, opening and half spilling the champain and they all cheer.
But considering they are likely muslim, they would be drinking lemonade instead. The quatermaster would more generous than ever!

God i need to get out more.

...mongol...

[ReaperMAC]

Yep, Ive noticed the same thing, the AA on certain maps are so obscure, they arent even worth using.

[Guerra]

Oh, so its okay to have two cobras and two A10s, but DON"T GIVE THE INSURGENTS ANYTHING.

Freaking USMC bias. Realism and balance demands that Anti Air should be placed in non stupid areas.

To the guy who asked how they are put up there, well, you can hoist them up with a crane, drop them off in a chopper, or assemble it from components. But if you look at Baghdad, they had shit loads of Anti Air guns.

Also, mobile AA can be hidden in the forests because it uses advanced missiles that can lock onto targets that are not within sight, traditional AA guns however, require a clear shot.

Like someone said, the US can take out the Anti Air guns, and should be encouraged to do so, until then, aircraft will be less invincible, but still pretty invincible. I personally would enjoy methodically taking out Anti Air guns. One good shot with a TV guided missile will also destroy an Anti Air gun instantly.

So people who complain are just wimpy pilots who don't want to die, they want obscene 128-0 scores, they want maps to be unbalanced and unrealistic in their favour.

What I want is realism and balance. Thats it. I'm a pilot and I enjoy a challenge.

With respects to Muttrah, why the hell would the US attack without an attack chopper? Why that map has no attack chopper is WAY beyond me. I'd give the Americans a Cobra and an APC or two.

[BetterDeadThanRed]

In a similar vein, I wish map makers would test the location of AT Missile emplacements a little more carefully as well. Both Steel Thunder and Greasy Mullet have emplacements that kill the user.

Oh yes, I almost posted something to this effect. There is a AT emplacement that allows you to look down the opposing bridge (its a northern point) without obstruction but when you fire, the missile hits a wall that is there but you are seeing around.

[jackal22]

there is a fine line between balance and shite positions, (no offense)

it just seems that on some maps balance is perceved to be so important yet its sooooo one sided.

it always seems that the usmc have to have the upper hand in every map they are on otherwise it isnt balanced, thats bull.

eg. bashrah.

us get 2 a-10s and 2- cobras. if you have a decent team insurgents cant move out of the dam buldings because of the gunners cobra gun. the a-10s pretty much rape every spawn car that moves as well.

yet insurgents get what 1/2 aa kits that no body knows where they are, and some aa guns that cant shoot anything.

yeh thats balance alright.

balance = usmc win in pr right now and its getting a little fustrating. /rant

[Rhino]

basrah is a very hard map to blance. It is the most asymmetrical map in the mod and its very hard to get the blance right when a map is asymmetrical, hence why EA did only convental army factions for BF2.

basrah is being worked on and being changed radicly for the next release, so the AA gun postions with any luck might be more in the Insurgants favor.

[bobfish]

Well, if you aren't going to put them in sensible places, then don't bother putting them in at all. I'd rather you dumped in a few more SA7 kits than have the useless AAA.

[Rhino]

Well, if you aren't going to put them in sensible places, then don't bother putting them in at all. I'd rather you dumped in a few more SA7 kits than have the useless AAA.

It really depends on the map you are refering too, if you think you can do a better job than us plz go ahead and crate your own mod.

[IAJTHOMAS]

AAA Guns are commonly used as anti-personnel. Probably the most known example if the Quad .50 Cal mounted on a truck. Amazing AAA weapon, but very useful for killing infantry too. Also, if i remember right the Russians classify their mobile AAA guns as Anti-Air/Anti-Material.

German 88's in the 2nd world war were better in many alternative roles than purpose built guns of the Allies. Not particularly relevant to the modern day though.

[bobfish]

Rhino']It really depends on the map you are refering too, if you think you can do a better job than us plz go ahead and crate your own mod.

Basra is what I'm thinking about when it comes to Anti-Air, the rest aren't so bad. Easy enough to tell what works though, if people never use them, then it's pointless it being there, just another object being loaded into memory.

[Rhino]

Basra is what I'm thinking about when it comes to Anti-Air, the rest aren't so bad. Easy enough to tell what works though, if people never use them, then it's pointless it being there, just another object being loaded into memory.

ye but like i said, basrah is going though a buch of changes, not sure how much the AA guns are being changed will talk to duck about that thou.

[Chuffy]

I do agree that AA emplacements are in really stupid places and US air power on Basra seems overpowering...

But speaking as someone who always plays as an AA rifleman on the Insurgents side I can guarantee you that within a few minutes of both A10's taking off they will both be destroyed. I'm not bragging or overestimating myself, A10's die so easily to SA-7's the AA emplacements are essentially useless. Cobra's can be harder to take down, but as long is it flying away from you it is easy to hit. Black Hawks are almost as easy to take down as A10's.

Basically I don't really care too much about the AA guns, the SA-7 can win the map for the INS.

[El_Vikingo]

Why is Anti Air placement so absurd?

Gameplay Balancing Issues

What a dumb response. Keep things realistic and leave the balancing to the mappers.

Looks like you didn't think that post through.

f the game was not blanced, you would not be playing it cos it would not be fun.

Exactly.

it always seems that the usmc have to have the upper hand in every map they are on otherwise it isnt balanced, thats bull.

eg. bashrah.

us get 2 a-10s and 2- cobras. if you have a decent team insurgents cant move out of the dam buldings because of the gunners cobra gun. the a-10s pretty much rape every spawn car that moves as well.

Yet, the insurgents still have it easy.

[Guerra]

Vikingo, you're the kind of guy who drives hummers to get to the cobra first, you're also the kind that team switches just so you can get in the cobra. So whatever you say, its with the inherent bias of increasing your K ratio in the cobra.

This is Project Reality, not Project Vanilla Balance. If there are to be Anti Air guns on Al Basrah, they should be in realistic positions. You can destroy them long range with TV missiles if you like, thats the sort of thing the Americans did when they attacked Baghdad, long range missile strikes to take out enemy AA gun emplacements.

Also, Basrah, while being a brilliantly asymmetrical map, is actually in USMC favor. Problem is, the USMC are so distracted by all the air goodies that they don't attack on ground.

Just like how there are commander elections, there should be pilot elections at the beginning, so if you don't get it, you don't spawn near the Cobras, Blackhawks or A10s and can't get the pilot kit. Once you die, you lose the position. That'd be nice.

Anyways, back to AA guns, right now, Basrah has stupid placement of AA guns, A10s and Cobras should not be flying super slow and hovering over the streets, A10s should do fast strafing runs, at the current speed, they would stall and crash. AA guns would force the A10s to fly faster and more realistically. It would also provide a fun challenge. Choppers shouldn't be hovering over the city like it does, in reality, there are way more Anti Air launchers, such as the Stinger and SA-7, an entire city would have quite a bit more than two. Increased Anti Aircraft guns would force pilots to fly in a more realistic manner, so quick strafing runs, long range TV missile attacks.

(By the way, why do people say AAA? Isn't it just AA? What the hell does that 3rd A stand for?)

Anti Aircraft guns on rooftops and on the ground with unobstructed views of the sky would not only be rational and add to realism, but it would give the added bonus of balance. Since they'll be up on buildings, it'll be rather difficult to be hitting infantry, so whoever's concerns that was, should sleep easy.

[nicon222]

AAA = Anti-Aircraft Artillery

[El_Vikingo]

Vikingo, you're the kind of guy who drives hummers to get to the cobra first, you're also the kind that team switches just so you can get in the cobra. So whatever you say, its with the inherent bias of increasing your K ratio in the cobra.
.

You haven't seen me play, so that comment isn't valid.

The rest of your post brought me to think that voting could be the best way.

Take for example, the commander post.
Here comes the question.

Is it possible to create a position (a la commander) for pilots?

[Lothrian]

Errr ... is it only me that thinks that the Basrah AAA is quite well placed?

Seriously ... 2 at Industry, 2 in Subs and 1 below Mosque. We could put some out west ... but what would be the bloody point? No one fights to the west. Once Village has gone, its all in the bloody centre (the AAA below Mosque) and east (the rest).

Not only are there 5 AA in and near the combat zones (Choppers, and jets always going near and in line of fire), but there are 2 PKMs which a full mag will take out a blackhawk, as well as 2 AAs which require 4 seconds to lock on and boom, normally either destroying the aircraft or chopper or making it retreat ...
Finally, not only that, but the RPG dude is an unlimited kit ... 2 hits will take out any of the air ... as well as an APC and no less than 4 T62 tanks ....

Jesus! Some people dont known when they have it lucky. I love playing INS ... you always ruin a Chopper/Jet Whores day

[77SiCaRiO77]

Errr ... is it only me that thinks that the Basrah AAA is quite well placed?

yes

Not only are there 5 AA in and near the combat zones (Choppers, and jets always going near and in line of fire), but there are 2 PKMs which a full mag will take out a blackhawk, as well as 2 AAs which require 4 seconds to lock on and boom, normally either destroying the aircraft or chopper or making it retreat ...

in RL one hit of a sa7 in the cabine and the chooper is down , BUT in pr you hit the rotos and the chooper just go away and repair

Finally, not only that, but the RPG dude is an unlimited kit ... 2 hits will take out any of the air

if you have the luck of hit something at more than 40 m , also rpg would be limited in .6

... as well as an APC and no less than 4 T62 tanks ....

tanks that can be destroyed by moving in a street (seriusly , remove the colition of the gun , its really annoying)

PD: OMG 1000 POST !

[Dr. Litch]

Looks like you didn't think that post through.

The point is, if you have AA on a map it needs to be placed in a REALISTIC position, since that's the whole damn point of the mod. Mappers can alter vehicles, # of AA's, moble AA, etc in order to 'balance' their placement, but NERFING them is exactly what BF2 did, something this mod is supposed to be moving away from.