reenforcement waves for infantry

[101 bassdrive]

now ive read the update posts about 0.6 in which you devs explain that vehicles will spawn in waves to simulate reenforcement waves. sounds very promising.

the way i understand this itll give a clear advantage to that team who can hold their vehicles up till the next wave arrives.. leading to a armored superiority.

on the other hand, due to the RP gameplay system, the reenforcement flow of infantry to the frontline would be pretty constant. as long as the RP is up, maybe because its glitched, very well hidden etc. ( dont matter if positive/negative reasons) you cant bleed out that particular flank that squad is holding. because after 30sec+ another soldier will take his place ( in terms of reality)

so.. ive been surfing the gloryhoundz stats a bit. what came to my mind was that the least players have an average death count above 10 per round.

my silly suggestion would be that as soon as a player has reached those 10 deaths, he cant spawn at the RP which in most cases is near the frontline.
he has to spawn as a part of the reenforcement back at the base ( fresh meat/ cannonfodder.. which he would be cause he propebly likes to shower in bullet rain)
same for the squadlead. you reach 10 deaths, you have to spawn at the base.
and the next coerce base spawn would be at 15 or 20 deaths, whatever you think would fit.

what it would help
- wave spawnin transport cars in the base would have a use for these reenforcement troups aswell as for squads which lost their RP
- the sometimes rather frustrating search the hornet nest and smoke it out RP searching would become optional
- yes, squads would be ripped apart.. but isnt it realistic?
your squad at the frontline ( veterans) has to wait for the fresh people to arrive.
- it would simulate the fact that infantry is limited
- it would simulate, on basis of deaths, the real size of a squad or rather platoon. depending on the deathlimit you would set
- it would add a certain: I DONT WANNA DIE effect to the players
you dont wanna spawn back at the base, wait, and drive or walk 10 minutes to get back to action
youll therefor be cautius

didnt run a search^^ so if its been suggested or being implented or i got this thingy with reenforcement waves totally wrong youre free to flame
hope my idea isnt to stupid and wish you all a nice day

[DrMcCleod]

didnt run a search^^ so if its been suggested or being implented or i got this thingy with reenforcement waves totally wrong youre free to flame
hope my idea isnt to stupid and wish you all a nice day

The point of 'wave-spawning' is to maintain squad cohesion (think Day Of Defeat HL mod), the changes you suggest would harm squad cohesion, so boo I say. Boo.

[Hides-His-Eyes]

Yeah, I'm against this, but for respawn of troops to happen in 1 minute waves

(your corpse dies after 20s and then you spawn with the next wave which happens every minute)

Annoying, yes; realism, yes; makes death a bad thing, yes; slightly more reality, yes.

[Long Bow]

Interesting idea to create some tension. I don't know if I like it or not yet. Im trying to figure out how it would work in game, how the round would progress, what would a long round play like once the majority of players have died 7-10 times? If one teams starts loosing the ability to spawn forward then the other team could suddenly start dominating the other team and turn the round into a camp fest? Just thinking out loud

This might be a problem on maps where one team starts with a ticket advantage or advantage of geography (the PLA vs Brits map in the hills, Al Bashra). The team that has to push hard to take ground out of the gates is going to rack up more deaths on average so that once they get into the core of the map they start loosing the ability to spawn on this ground they worked so hard to take and the other team having less average deaths per player will be free to spawn close to the battle. The maps will need to change to accomidate this feature I think.

I'm really confused on this one, it could be brilliant or it could flop horribly. Im just not sure.

Cheers,

[101 bassdrive]

I know I'm leaning very far out the window with this suggestion. since it's the dev's baby which we just are allowed to hold
and we all dont really know anything and will just have to see how it works out in 0.6

I see your concern bout the baseraping long bow. hopefully befor that would happen another wave would set in, fully equipet with infantry and armor.
the pushin force would have bleeded a bit already, which means theyd gain ground but itll come to a stop.. just a bit deeper into one side of the map ( gainin enemy territory)
particulary pushing/defending kinda maps.. think of american football. if your defense isnt up there will always be a touchdown. sh*t happens^^
and the further your running back runs the more tired he will get ( standing for armors blowing up, infatry KIA etc)
bit offtopic: you know, atm with 0.5 theres already something wrong with the teamsetup if one force gets pushed back to the base.
I believe many agree that ranks/ abr are kinda lame.. that it just shows who plays alot and who not. but it still shows experience.
so the playercount may be fair. but in one team the VOIP is bout ambushing and flanking and the other team the textmessages bout: "how do i get this F"ç% pilotkit!!11" and WTF IM ON LSD!LOL

drmccloud.. squads ( platoons etc) which are under attack and lose ground often dont stay cohesent, they get split up and lose contact with the rest of the forces. would be up to the SL to take action against a squadmember who used up his, uhm, spawntickets.
or even to tell em to stay more passive for a while.

I dont know if youd have to implent this system to those then oldskool maps, devs havent told us yet if they get the vehiclewave spawnin.
basrah airport anyway has the deathradius around it symbolic for its fortress likeness ( I think the US would call it green zone)

why I came up to this idea was that thinking of these 17sqkm maps and constant infantry at the frontline i cant see the vehicles last long in theory ( SLAM, RPG, H-AT)
except by using a blitzkrieg tactics which concentrates the attack to one point at the frontline
and.. that dying doesnt seem to hurt enough atm
to many players just rush out there, rack up some kills, lay back looking at the yellow countdown and rush out there again. theyll do this as long as their kd ratio is alright.. cause waiting 50 sec or so doesnt really bother when you sneaked behind the frontline and got 5kills with a single noobtube round just to get ripped apart a second later. its sadly said, somehow worth it.
but would it be worth it if you know you have to spend 10minutes running or driving back to the front?

[Hides-His-Eyes]

man here's a thought with vehicle waves:

finally spec ops with slams going into enemy mains will become SO valuable to a team

[Long Bow]

I'm still undecided. You do make a good point about increasing the value of each life on the big maps. It would be a big kick in the pants having to wait for transport from the main base to get back into the action. I am a teamwork player for sure but I also play very aggressive sometimes too, this would make me slow down more Perhaps if the amount of deaths required to take effect was bumped up from ten depending on the length of the round or # of tickets. A really long round etc. could have a cut-off of 15 deaths perhaps.

The other thing I just thought of that could throw a wrench in this is someone joining your squad half way through the round. If everyone in the squad is close to loosing or has lost the forward spawn ability the new guy could be stuck out there alone allot and not create a good team dynamic in the squad. Mind you this would really only be a problem for the first few minutes until he gets organized with the squad.

Ok what if your system was in place but you could still spawn on your SL regardless of deaths but not on your rally point past the cut off. If your SL dies past the cut-off he can't spawn on the rally point either. Secondly you could spawn at one of the new commander placed bunkers/firebases regardless of deaths as this would be more likely where your re-inforcements would be coming from? I think your idea has merit to it the more and more I think about it.

[101 bassdrive]

those ideas sound nice.
you could always spawn in on commander set bunkers
you can always spawn in on the SL.
the RP gets a spawncount which is a hoovering countdown number over the RP when u kickin the ALT HUD. the SL can refresh that countdown number at an APC ( which is designated for troop transport since 0.5)
rambos which get to maybe 10-15 deaths depending on the mapsize/gamelength lose the ability to spawn at the RP. I'd say they wouldnt work together with the squad anyway if they die that often.
and yeah as you said, even if its the SL and hes past those deaths he cant spawn/ set RPs .. harsh but it maybe would increase teamwork cause others get pissed off on you^^ nobody likes to be flamed down..

I'm just really eager about these upcoming gamedynamics changes. the DEVs have made such ridicilously nice improvements so far with RPs and AAS2.
it has its minor flaws ( glitching RP -> unstoppable infantry influx from a flank) but in the end it just smacks vanilla in the face how uninspired and mediocre it is!
btw: didnt they promise us other game modes for it a long time ago.. *middlefingertowardsthesoulless$hoes*

[Outlawz7]

Well, you could get fragged 10+ times, even if you were in a squad and working together...

I like the RP idea, but some rounds can last up to 3+ hours, so big amount of deaths is always there. So, if you couldnt spawn on the squads Rally after dieing 10 times, that would make them useful only at start...

EDIT: I agree with the RP glitch issue, though...really annoying, that you can place it in static objects, and that it deploys randomly...

[eggman]

Wave Spawning of Infantry doesn't work in BF2 because the largest possible wave you can define is 6. So you could be waiting for a long time for more of your squaddies to die.

It works in other games where the entire team is a pool to draw on for the wave, but everybody in PR should be in a squad and squads should be regrded as the "pool" for the wave spawning.

I don't think it has a place in BF2 / PR.

[Hides-His-Eyes]

eggman']Wave Spawning of Infantry doesn't work in BF2 because the largest possible wave you can define is 6. So you could be waiting for a long time for more of your squaddies to die.

It works in other games where the entire team is a pool to draw on for the wave, but everybody in PR should be in a squad and squads should be regrded as the "pool" for the wave spawning.

I don't think it has a place in BF2 / PR.

ok, thanks for the explanation.

[Long Bow]

Thanks eggman for putting this idea to rest, much appreciated.

Cheers,

[101 bassdrive]

I bet u DEVs come up with a better solution anyway