molotov cocktail

[daranz]

Do you know how bad human actually have to burn to die? or to bleed from fire? I doubt you get burned that bad even if you run through the flame, ofc if the bottle brokes above the dude and he gets the coctail over himselfs and then on fire, well, hes screwed.

On the other hand, I doubt that you'd want to run around and shoot too much after running through a fire. First, it would hurt, and second, you'd be very likely to catch fire - not exactly something most people like to do, especially if they carry a bunch of rifle magazines and grenades.

[77SiCaRiO77]

molotov + granade = 4th july

[Long Bow]

I think the important point which that video illustrates is not that the officers were not injuered but that a group of 8 + officers had to stop and withdraw. They needed to make sure the flames went out to prevent getting burned. Yes I know obvious, but in PR there is no consequences from the maltov hence stopping the squads advance.

It would be nice but probably not possible to have a mild "bleed" from catching fire that could only be stopped by laying prone without moving for 10 seconds. The point of this would not be to kill more US soldiers but rather make it so they can't run through the fires hence limiting their movement.

Not a major flaw that needs fixing by any means but a possible tweak down the road


Cheers,

[Liquid_Cow]

Molotov cocktail, named after Vyacheslav Molotov, of the Soviet Union by the Finns who used them against Red Army armor invading during the "Winter War."

Modern tanks have been "hardened" against Molotov's basically splash guards are designed into hatches and vents to prevent gasoline from pouring into the crew compartment, but they are still vulnerable, and an open hatch makes it real easy to destroy.

There are two types of "fusing" on a Molotov, the most familiar type is the rag in the top, where the rag is soaked in the fuel and burning quite well when thrown, though it gasoline is used as fuel it can explode in your hand. The heat from this fire will break the bottle in mid air or soon after it hits the ground. The problem with them is they are inconsistent and can break at almost any time. Sealed Molotov’s have the ignition source separated from the fuel like this one, which must break (or wait longer to pop open) when used.


The fuel in well made cocktails is not normally gasoline, as pointed out it burns too quickly, and in the rag-in-top style is dangerous to the igniter.

Even if the cocktail does not disable the tank, the fire will at least temporarily blind the crew's optics allowing follow up attacks or the placing of sticky bombs.

IRL I am a Firefighter/EMT and know exactly how little fire it takes to kill a man. You inhale flames (or just superheated air), just a little, and the lining of your nose and throat get burned (if the damage reaches you're lungs you're not going to live long). These wounds are extremely painful, and the fluids which leak from them eventually fill your lungs and you drown. If you make it through the drowning the scabs/scar tissue in your esophagus begins to constrict and is not flexible like the natural lining, eventually you suffocate. Burns also screw with your body chemistry, causing huge imbalances in sodium, potassium, and other minerals vial to life. Burns (less then 3rd degree) are extremely painful. I've seen people take enough morphine to cause an OD death in a normal person who still scream out in pain. Those police officers in the video may "walk away" after the attack, but that's no guarantee that they are fine.

You would only cause limited damage to a soldier with one since they only create a small fire and they wear fire resistant clothes (I think) then they just move away from the flames. QUOTE]

Sadly this is not the case, the uniform the military is using is NOT flame resistant. Many troopers would buy their own NOMEX clothing to help protect them, but sadly just in the last month the Army and Marine Corps has banned the use of privately purchased gear (including body armor and ballistic sun glasses). Only flight crews get NOMEX.

The Marine Corps issued a directive Tuesday restricting the use of store-bought personal protective equipment in the war zone, including body armor, ballistic glasses, armor plates and fire-retardant clothing.

Here's the link to the article: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,1 ... 37,00.html

[Expendable Grunt]

Wow why did they limit personal gear?

[OkitaMakoto]

But the small amount of gasoline burns off quickly, if thrown onto something flammable, like dry grass you'd get a more persistent fire.
The problem with them is you need to hit something hard enough to break the bottle. Throwing one at a person, it would just bounce off and maybe not even break on the rebound.
During WW2 the Germans put wire and bushes on their tanks to stop the bottles from breaking, in response the Soviets tied a rock on a rope to bottle which smashed it on impact!
In the video it showed the only way to effect people with them is to break them on objects above and in front of someone. Even then with their protective clothing they seemed to not do much. Oh and at 32 sec in the vid it looks like an officer hits a Molotov mid-air with a gas grenade!

it doesnt need to break, shit, the flame catching the liquid inside the bottle would blow it up... jesus... havent you ever heard of them exploding before being thrown and how dangerous they are???

i think there are too many... seems like they are always being thrown.. but thats just me... and they last so long... but i like them... just..annoying lol

[Soulja]

The Germans actually put that stuff on their vehicles for camouflage, not to stop Molotovs, The Germans did put protective covers on the back of certain vehicles such as the Wespe which before the invasion of Russia had open backs on the vehicle so that the loaders had more room to move around and to get out of the way of the recoil of the 88mm Cannon. But after they moved into Russia they started getting explosives and Molotovs dropped on them so one of their generals (I forget which one) orders all vehicles to have closed backs/tops.

[Taffy]

I believe that molotovs do not explode. The fuel simply burns. This is why they are made out of glass. Upon impact, the glass smashes, spraying fuel everywhere. Because the fuel is already on fire, you get a 'circle' of flames, with the most intense flames in the centre, where the bottle smashed.

The fuel used is, at the most basic level, vodka mixed with sugar to make it go sticky. Like someone said, more complicated one's (like the one's insurgents are most likely to use) are a mix of alcohol or other such flammable liquid, tar and sometimes lighter fluid, just to help initial ignition. They are NEVER made out of petrol, or 'gasoline', as you Americans call it. Petrol explodes, which would be of no use at all to the user of them!

Also, anti-vehicle ones would probably be a lot runnier, and the tar or sugar levels in them would be much lower. This is because the burning fuel will drip into the engine bay, the fuel tanks and the ammunition stores much easier that way. They would essentially turn a tank into a large oven, full of explosives. The shells stored inside would go off, blowing the tank up from the inside. TBH, a well-aimed molotov is probably more useful against tanks than RPG's. Tank armour is projectile-resistant, but it isn't watertight.

[OkitaMakoto]

true, but think of a flame burning down the cloth and into a glass bottle full of flammable liquidy goo. if the flame/burst doesnt have the room to get out the top (which it prolly doesnt) its going to explode the glass because of the force of the fire igniting and pushing out on the glass etc..

[Outlawz7]

Even if the cocktail does not disable the tank, the fire will at least temporarily blind the crew's optics allowing follow up attacks or the placing of sticky bombs.

Thats a good idea!
Why not make it, so if theres a Molotov thrown at a tank, the driver cant see anything for a certain amount of time. Would be also good for RPGs hitting the front...I always get confused, when someone shoots RPG into the front part, where I am sitting, then it looks so weird, having a rocket explode in my face, only it doesnt kill me, lol...

[Liquid_Cow]

where I am sitting, then it looks so weird, having a rocket explode in my face, only it doesnt kill me, lol...

That's because in combat you'd have your hatch closed and be using the 3 periscopes the driver has. IRL you can choose to sit up with your head out the hatch or sit lower inside the armor. Also, IRL one of the periscopes has night vision. Note the three scopes on the hull just under the gun.

A Molitov to this area would not hurt the driver (provided the hatch was closed) but would blind him temporarily. Of course, the tank commander and gunner would still have their vision, so they could just tell the driver where to go (often practiced). There's a lot of redundancy in tank optics just because the risk of them being disabled is so high.