Specialized Squads

[Maxfragg]

In real live you don't act in masses off same typ squads, so could it be possible to add some varity to the gameplay by adding the possability for special-typ-squads ?
It could work the way, that you have 3 different squadleader kits which set the role off the squad and the kits the members can request

Recon:
a squadleader with camo net and perhaps with an M-14 unskoped or similar,
members can request scout, DM and sniper kits
Assault:
squadleader of standart type, member can request nadelauncher, LMG, DM kits
Heavy Weapons:
squadleader gets light antitank and has no fragnades, members get light and heavy antitank kits


what do you and the devs think ?

[Outlawz7]

Two thumbs up for this one...
Would solve the problem with commander not knowing, what squad is doing what...

[Ecko]

We would also need a Armored and Airborne squad leader as well than.

[Maxfragg]

I'm shure you'll get beaten for the Aírborne, but yes!
and in addition perhaps also a Demo/SpecOps squad, and off cause all SL kits would have to be limited fitting to the map/size

[Dyer |3-5|]

Hardcoded?

[Maxfragg]

y should it, you just let the squadleader request one kit and that is the choose for the type of squad and which kits the members can request

[Mongolian_dude]

Hardcoded?

Not hard coded but excentric.
Also, you need to consider how many people these specialist roles would be taking from the fight. On maps like Albasrah 64, it can be hard enough to get a full co-operative squad to pull themselves together. Remember that atm, BF2 can support at max 64 players, 32 a side, far from what most realistic conflicts require.

...mongol...

[Expendable Grunt]

The closest I ever got to specialized squads was calling them Armor, Anti-Tank, Recon, Infantry, etc...

Normally, if I made an Anti-Tank squad, the heavy AT was all taken by the "sniper with splash" crew, and wouldn't give it back. If I made an armor squad, all the tanks where gone with one person in them. If I make a recon squad, people wanter off. An Infantry squad attracts the most chopper pilots, too -- by that I mean attack chopper pilots.

[Taffy]

Thats why we need to get the n00bs outta this game! they spoil it for everyone else. Down with the n00bs!

I like this idea, but he's right, it wouldn't work, or at least not until we GET RID OF THE N00BS! (Sorry for the repetition, just played the suckiest round ever, server was full of tk'ing n00bs who only downloaded the mod cause it's got sexy new vehicles and the British Army is in it)

[[uBp]Irish]

Would never work. May work in AA, but not in BF2, this is why.

BF2 and the whole series for that matter has been about choice. Do i want to fly, or drive a tank, or shoot someone with a sniper rifle. Along the lines of PR this same type of idealogy still applies.

As soon as you take the choice away from the player with regards to what he can and cannot do, than you ruin the game for the player, which is something you do not want to do. The idea is plausible, but it's up to the teamwork of the squad to determine what they want to do, be it infantry, air, spec-ops, or armor. It's all up to the player, which is the theme of BF2, and that can be said for PR with and teamwork thrown in.

[[T]Terranova7]

It's a nice idea, one that works rather well on AA. But a similar idea was dissussed in the past. Back when kits like Heavy AT, Support and Sniper were not limited, one of the ideas the community came up with was to have an AA style squad. Though I think the concept wasn't possible to implement.

Though I think it's fine as it is now. In fact you do see a little bit of what you're describing without having it coded into the engine. People will form their own Armor, Air, Recon, Infantry squads. And I'm willing to bet it's seen alot more on organized play (tournaments, clan matches etc.).

[Wattershed]

Irish']Would never work. May work in AA, but not in BF2, this is why.

BF2 and the whole series for that matter has been about choice. Do i want to fly, or drive a tank, or shoot someone with a sniper rifle. Along the lines of PR this same type of idealogy still applies.

As soon as you take the choice away from the player with regards to what he can and cannot do, than you ruin the game for the player, which is something you do not want to do. The idea is plausible, but it's up to the teamwork of the squad to determine what they want to do, be it infantry, air, spec-ops, or armor. It's all up to the player, which is the theme of BF2, and that can be said for PR with and teamwork thrown in.

You still have a choice! If you want a different profession its just to switch squads.

This is a great idea for vehicles. Tank squads, transport, attack chopper, airplanes squads. This will up the communication between lets say tanks! Armor convoys! Think of the possibility! Transport must maybe be available to all.

[BetterDeadThanRed]

I suggested this a while ago but it was claimed to be hardcoded and overly complex. Now that I look back on it, I agree with that conclusion.

[[uBp]Irish]

You still have a choice! If you want a different profession its just to switch squads.

This is a great idea for vehicles. Tank squads, transport, attack chopper, airplanes squads. This will up the communication between lets say tanks! Armor convoys! Think of the possibility! Transport must maybe be available to all.

you dont have a choice if the squad you want to be in .. say flying or armor or assault infantry is full. Plus, BF2 squad system is retard-proof. If you have an idiot in your squad, kick him out or make a new one. You still have the same ability to do whatever you did in the last squad you were in.

Your system has a flaw. If you are better than someone that is in the "Pilot" squad, and who is just screwing up badly, but the squad is filled, tough luck , go join infantry which may be something you suck at. So, by having the players choose what squad does what (which happens alot nowadays) it eliminates the idiot vBF2 noob from taking all the good stuff. Because if he crashes, just wait for the a-10, and if he comes at you, shoot him.

[workingrobbie]

Sounds like a good idea, but as everyone else has said, too hard to implement just because of the people involved and the coding involved.
Plus, again as someone else mentioned, we can kinda already to this by making our squad dedicated to an area (armour, inf, AT, flyboys) BUT this involves the cooperative and teamwork of the entire team.

[jerkzilla]

I also disagree with this. While it may sound great and teamwork inducing, it's actually too complex and presumes that the players that are good in on e particular field will join the appropriate squad, and that may not happen for various reasons.
I found that a cobra in the same squad with a tank can work great together. I you are in a tank and are getting RPGed and a lot of infantry are moving in on your position, in other words, overwhelmed, just give a shout on VOIP for the cobra to save your ***. This type of squad saved mine a few times in a round. So you don't always need specialized squads.
Maybe a special forces squad might work though.

[arthuro12]

i like it

[Maxfragg]

so finaly almost everyone likes it, but all think the players are to stupid, right ?
... too sad

[bunny]

Hardcoded?

ya that's what I was gonna say. i don't think that's actually possible to do with the game engine...could b wrong tho

[Viper3369]

I was actually thinking about this, and here's a possible solution:

Custom Squads!

If you name your squad with a certain prefix (eg. "Air:") then only members of that squad can get access to certain requestable kits. It seems that some requestable kits should be made available to only these custom squads, and not if you're in a generic squad. Since the code already limits those, perhaps it can limit them to members of certain named squads. Not sure about code, since I'm not a BF2 modder.

So here's my examples:

Air: Pilot kit available
Armour: Crewman kit available.
Sniper: Sniper kit available.
SpecOps: SpecOps kit available (if it were made requestable only).

So, I'd go to "Custom Squad" and name mine "Air: Wombats" - and so I can get the pilot kit, and others can join in. This also forces the squad to be identifiable for the commander - it's obvious the intent. In fact for Air, perhaps "AC:", "Helo:" might be better, and the kits only work for aircraft and helicopters respectively. Possibly also "APC:" and "Tank:" for armour.

There's actually a few game design problems with this though:

- People leaving the squad after they get the kit they want. Solution: Either they can't leave, unless they drop the kit [preffered] or they lose it, or they die.

- People making squads just to get the kit. It should be the case that since it's slightly harder to make a squad, if there's one already, you'll join up. If the squad is full, then there's no more kits for sure. But even if you join and there isn't, you could leave or get a kit which compliments (eg. Armour might contain engineers, light or heavy AT, Sniper could have riflemen for ammo, medics or spec ops for spotting).

It might be wise to limit squads with a certain name to match the number of kits. IE. Two "Air:" squads == 12 pilot kits maximum.


Perhaps only members of the named squad can pick up kits of the certain type allowed. eg. you could have 4 sniper kits on the ground, but only "Sniper" squad members can pick them up - if somebody picks up a wrong kit, it's at least possible to kill them. We already have similar mechanics for tk'd kits.

Possibly this could be extended to allow squads that can only contain certain kits - ie. you cannot join:
- unless you have the given regular pickable kit (eg. rifleman, medic etc)
- and the squad limit for that kit type has not been exceed
- it'd be nice if the initial round before a game started showed your choice in the squad menu.

I have no idea exactly of the composition (not military), but possibly:

Infantry: SL, 4 Rifleman, 1 Medic.
Support: SL, 1 Rifleman, 1 Medic, 1 M203, 1 Support.
Recon: SL, 1 Marksman, 1 SpecOps, 1 Medic.
AA: SL, 2 AA, 2 Rifleman, 1 Medic.
AT: SL, 1 Light AT, 1 Heavy AT, 1 Rifleman, 1 Medic, 1 Engineer.

It might be wise to limit these to one custom squad of each type, except for perhaps "Infantry"?

Lots of ideas, perhaps one or two might even be possible...