thing that makes me ornery.

Sneak Attack · Post by **Sneak Attack** » 2007-05-01 05:04

if im shooting (and hitting) some one he should not be able to shoot back.

it really pisses me off when i am shooting some 1 with the pistol but sense its the pistol it takes 10+ shots to get the job done and about 5-7 shots through the ordeal the guy who i am shooting at shoots back with his rifle and kills me. ...MY ***
if my bullets are hitting you you should not be able to fire back, you should have to wait until i start to miss or you hide.
as it is now, when you shoot some one there body does a little spaz out thing where the barrel of there gun goes into the ground and blood poofs off but they can some how still shoot forward.

they had this feature in BFV, if you were getting hit by bullets your gun just wouldnt work. but the second you stopped getting hit you were able to shoot back.

its one of the gayest things EVER to be shooting at some guy with a SAW with your MP5 or AK or w/e and you see him laying there spazing out with blood going all over and he is some how shooting back at you, even through his gun is pointed in the ground.
its just mondo gayness.

Soulis6 · Post by **Soulis6** » 2007-05-01 05:55

I agree. but whatcha gonna do?

Post by **Falkun** » 2007-05-01 06:39

Massive LSD effect upon getting hit by a bullet would probably fix it.

vassili · Post by **vassili** » 2007-05-01 06:52

that would just be stupid.. oke its realistic.
but that wouldnt give him any chance of getting away as he would not be able to go and hide and he probebly cant see cleary afther you fix it with a "LSD"effect,

it would be to easy to kill, you should somebody they stop moving , looing up and down like a *.*.*, and bang bang you can shoot em.

Post by **Falkun** » 2007-05-01 07:22

After someone is hit by a bullet IRL, it probably is not very easy nor feasible for them to simply start running away. You would likely fall down.

Long Bow · Post by **Long Bow** » 2007-05-01 15:51

This is something that bugs me to no end. If I get the initial advantage on a guy it doesn't mean much. I have had countless times where I have hit someone only to have them smoke me with a __________ (insert:RPG, AT4, GL)

However sometimes the problem is the hitbox detection where you see the bullet impact/blood but the hit doesn't actually register on the player. That is something that if it could be fixed people would pay good money for (yes originaly buying BF2 was good money but EA doesn't see it that way "why would we want to invest time to patch that, you already gave us you're money?").

$kelet0r · Post by **$kelet0r** » 2007-05-01 16:00

a 'white-out' and fade to normal when hit would work very well - similar to what the War Games mod for Flashpoint implemented. The BF2 Flashbang effect is crying out to be used....

Clypp · Post by **Clypp** » 2007-05-01 16:16

If you have body armor on and get hit with a pistol you can still fire back without being too stunned.

stringue · Post by **stringue** » 2007-05-01 16:47

Is something like this possible?

1. Insurgent shoots Squady for 100hp in the torso, Squady is wearing plate armor and has 100hp max, Squady takes damage and is 'concussed' (he see's the mortally wounded screen as is current but without the same text). He is knocked to the floor and cannot move (as happens currently when you take lots of damage, difference here the armor strength or weapon power would be changed to 'mortally wound' the player near enough straight away depending on weapon).

2. Squady is now 'concussed' for 5 seconds (variable)

2a. Meanwhile Squad covers their fallen comrade and takes out the Insurgent

3. Different to currently, after the 5 seconds elapses, the game engine 'resusitates' the player (as with shock paddles currently), and gives him 80hp(variable). The now unstunned player can do everything as usual and is not bleeding as his armor caught the bullet, he does not need medical attention as it was a center mass shot.

This way when a person is shot in the torso they would be rendered helpless and unable to return fire as I'm sure is more realistic (as long as it isnt a pistol or shrapnel or something minor with accordingly lower damage value). Squad's would be more inclined to protect their concussed comrades, with stronger armors you could potentially drop the shock-paddle resusitation concept from the mod, also I think the game engine doesnt allow players to shoot mortally wounded players so it kinda avoids moral issue.

Assuming the paddles were dropped it would also add more realism to larger calibre weapons, say a .50 cal may do >180 damage making the game engine unable to resusitate a player (if it gives back 80hp). This would make the stopping power of 50cals more tactically important, squads would really have to respect fixed gun positions.

daranz · Post by **daranz** » 2007-05-01 16:56

Perhaps something like what AA did would work. In AA, if you get shot, your screen jolts in a random direction. So, if you were aiming at someone, and got shot, you could end up aiming at the sky. That effectively makes it impossible to return fire while being shot at, but allows you to fire back shortly afterwards. The effect could vary in magnitude, so if you get shot with a pistol, your view would move by a smaller distance, compared to the effects of getting hit by a rifle.

I don't know how possible this is with the engine, though... Probably somewhere between "I don't think so" and "no way, man."

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-05-01 17:01

I posted a big threat about this a while ago...I HATE this facet of the game, it gives the proners such an advantage. It also removes a lot of real life tactics from many situations...I mean an MP5 in close quarters is fairly lethal due to its "hitting ability"...but as it stands now, the guy with the AK CLEARLY has the advantage with his spray and pray abilities combined with larger bullet. It Gheyness to the max and I would hope its a big priority to the Devs, though they strangely did not comment on the issue. Its interesting how a lot of good ideas dont get a lot of comments by Devs, but the bad ones usually do(relatively speaking)...ah well, I'm sure they read them anyways. Go .6!!

Post by **Mongolian_dude** » 2007-05-01 17:02

Something that i have been thinking about is how frequently i get headshotted by a guy witha rifle when im trying to suppress him with an MG. I may find that he is behind a medium wall where his rifle and head are only exposed but find I, myself am behind one, forcing me to stand and sacrafice accuracy. I open up in short 4-6 bursts as per usual but he just stands still and fires a shot in my head as my less accurate MG wizzes around his head. Perhaps increased LSD effect from getting bullet snaps and hit for MGs and especialy 50cal and up ordinance.

...mongol...

swiftdraw · Post by **swiftdraw** » 2007-05-01 17:06

stringue wrote:Is something like this possible?
....
2a. Meanwhile Squad covers their fallen comrade and takes out the Insurgent

Ahahahahahahahahaha.... No.

Problem with that is you'll have medics diving in on the guy trying to 'revive' him when he is not actually out, thus wasting valuable charges. Alternatively, a guy could be dying but people don't look at the mini map and just think he is stunned. Or, he goes down an everyone runs off without him.

Another thing is, I don't think you can kill some one in a critically wounded state. So really if you pop an entire squad and their only stunned you can't move forward until they wake up and you shoot them again. If you could finish them off while they were down, it wouldn't be too bad I guess. Be annoying for the stunned squad though, only at half HP but you're going to die anyways because of being stunned.

stringue · Post by **stringue** » 2007-05-01 17:26

"Problem with that is you'll have medics diving in on the guy trying to 'revive' him when he is not actually out"

The shock-paddles are gamey - with decent body armor we could remove them (I'd love to know where the PR developers stand on the future of resuscitation), a stunned person would stand up on their own, perhaps 3 seconds then to make it a bit less.

"don't think you can kill some one in a critically wounded state"

Yeah guess that's a problem

I thought it might make the game a bit immoral with players shooting injured people on the floor but it is project 'reality' :/

Ok what about 1 second concussion? thats excluding the time for animations, that should make the return fire problem dissapear, yet kinda workaround not being able to shoot injured people;

In the case of a single man down, his squad can lay covering fire (and knock out hostiles long enough through stunning) for him to recover and seek cover, (if he is alone then thats too bad for him, if his squad runs away he should prob change squad)

If a whole squad get's grenaded then surely with modern body armor they would be killed (no revives) in a rather small area, and the fragments would be defeated (ie.no stunning) after that, If they are all standing bunched up then perhaps they are asking for trouble

Dyer |3-5| · Post by **Dyer |3-5|** » 2007-05-01 17:26

vassili wrote:that would just be stupid.. oke its realistic.
but that wouldnt give him any chance of getting away as he would not be able to go and hide and he probebly cant see cleary afther you fix it with a "LSD"effect,

it would be to easy to kill, you should somebody they stop moving , looing up and down like a *.*.*, and bang bang you can shoot em.

If you don't like reality there is always vanilla...

I agree that this is somthing that really needs to be addressed. Right now it is way to easy to kill someone after being ambushed. I would agree with the LSD effect, but it isn't that hard to aim with it going on. You have much more limited situational awareness, but I have pistoled people after they shot me and I turned around. I think the screen should turn black for about 1/2 of a second and then fade back in- with you looking in a different, random, direction.

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-05-01 17:58

One thing, Ive noticed - when I went kneeling, the aimpoint on my M4 moved a bit around and I couldnt shoot. Same, when switching back to standing.
Also occured, when going from prone to stand. EXCEPT when I prone dived, it stayed still, wtf?

We should implement something like a gun being moved into another direction, when you're getting shot at, so you have less chance to hit, what you want to shoot - not some stupid LSD and flashbang, gtfo with that...brings back the SF vanilla moments with flashbangs and tear gas being spammed all over..

$kelet0r · Post by **$kelet0r** » 2007-05-01 18:12

We should implement something like a gun being moved into another direction, when you're getting shot at, so you have less chance to hit, what you want to shoot - not some stupid LSD and flashbang, gtfo with that...brings back the SF vanilla moments with flashbangs and tear gas being spammed all over..

you misunderstand - the LSD or preferably flashbang effect suggested are for when a bullet actually hits you tearing holes in your blood rich tissue. The Flashbang effect would be my preference simply because it is realistic - the sudden shock of pain causes something similar to a white out (I've experienced it but it was more bright red

), followed by blurred vision caused by the concussive effect and or tears. The LSD effect is on the other hand perfect for simulating the loss of blood causing wooziness and dizzyness.

Am I the only one who thinks that the PR near miss/suppressive effect with the blur and tinnitus is excellent? Your vision blurs from the noise/tinnitus but you would not necessarily become a deer in the headlights because of it and that should not be forced either - each individual human response is different. I have jerked the weapon up into the air by moving the mouse suddenly just from the suprise/shock of hearing the noise of a passing bullet. I hope we can avoid the excessive Red Orc effect and the extremes of the America's Army paralysis when bullets are being fired. Personally the PR effect is as near perfect as you could want short of a more pronounced tinnitus effect.

jeffy777 · Post by **jeffy777** » 2007-05-01 18:27

I totally agree with you $kelet0r

Fat Zombie · Post by **Fat Zombie** » 2007-05-01 19:50

Skeletor is right. Throwing. Your. Aim. Off. Every time you get hit would make it near impossible to fight.

Also; you can't get rid of the shock paddles! They're my best bit! The reason I play medic is because for the most part, my shooting skills are a bit awful (I usually leave it to the shooting experts). But I can heal and revive people like the best of them! Yeah!

(That, and shoot down full little birds with an RPG on Muttrah! Woo! Just did that, and it was AWESOME)

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-05-01 19:50

Yeah well said Skeletor, things are good now...we just need more of an effect for when you get HIT. Flashbang effect or whatever, it just needs to be there when you get hit. As it is now, its almost like theres more of an effect when its a NEAR MISS and your vision blurs then when you are actually hit. I personally would like to see a few stamina pts taken off when you get hit as well...or like 50% of the time you lose ALL your stamina. IRL some people keep on sprinting around, but sometimes they get knocked down (when running ) etc by a good hit. BTW I do think a slight camera jerk would be totally realistic though, it is rather difficult to fight when you are getting shot

In the end its realism that matters and getting hit would def throw your aim off...this is one of the reasons US uses 5.56 round...it allows more consistent hits due to lower recoil...because the first hit is generally the most important. This is the same reason why CQB uses low recoil rounds, they can get off the first couple of hits very easily making it difficult to return fire. For now I'd rather have a knife than an MP5 or Pistol against an AK47....they are just rediculously nerfed due to game mechanics.