Increased Realism suggestions

[stringue]

Downloaded PR a few months ago now - its a fantastic mod - a big thankyou to all the contributors for all the hard work! I havent played BF2 vanilla since!

I downloaded it because I like realistic games/sims, I think realisim add's a lot more thinking gameplay to game's (ie. cover, squads etc), that said here are my own 2 penny's worth of suggestions, I did check them against the pinned thread.

1) Squad Size: 8 men ; I dont think as it is, a squad has enough firepower in most situations to take down even 1 or 2 hostile's without suffering casualty's, in most videos Ive seen, squads seem to overwhelm the enemy with firepower.

2) Defribulators and Medic: Its all a bit magical isn't it? Can the defribs be replaced with a big bag of those handy bandaid's for the medic?

3) Concussion: This kinda resulted in my thread, often I come across a lone hostile, get him by suprise and empty a few bursts of my M16 into him only for him to drop to the floor and take me out with his better stopping power G3, it seems the act of being shot repeatedly is a minor hindrance to ones in game avatar.

Concussion effects may include; knocking a person over, black out, shakey cam, or otherwise make taking accurate aim very difficult.

4) Gun Jam's

5) National Difference's: I don't know if some of these are already implemented but;
- Interceptor body armor or similar armor with inserts for US/UK, make western infantry able to withstand repeated hit's (with concussion of course) without damage to center mass.
- Soft Armor for Chinese/MEC, perhaps similar to current?
- No Armor for Insurgent

- US/UK make the support weapons available from the kit page to reflect the greater wealth of these countrys

- Increase Stamina of US/UK forces to reflect their better training/motivation

- Increase Speed of Insurgent/Chinese/MEC (perhaps more for Insurgent) to reflect their lighter kit

- Increase Effectiveness of US/UK medic

This will of course make it unbalanced I know, but surely this is as RL™? to offset this and reflect quality vs quantity:

- Change Spawn/ReSpawn Time's ie. increase Western, Decrease Eastern
- Change Team Ratio's ie. 2 MEC positions for 1 West or something similar
- Change Start ticket ratio's (West not willing to lose as much)

6) And lastly, squads are the bread and butter of PR, so perhaps change the end of round screen a little to show all the squad's rather than just individuals, maybe giving awards for different things (or just gold/silver/bronze) at the end to the best squad on each side - or something like that.

Rgrds!
stringue

[Pantera]

Numbers 1 and 4 arent possible due to Engine limitations.

But i agree with the other points! Really great ideas there....apart from the medic loosing the defib....how else do you revive someone?

[Long Bow]

Im glad you're enjoying the PR experience. I believe allot of your ideas/suggestions have been posted before. Do a search for each one and you will probably be able to find some threads that will answer where those ideas stand with the Dev team. I'm not sure if parts of suggestion #5 have been suggested before though. The support gun idea has been suggested before. I think there could be some merit to the national differences but I feel that even though it is perhaps realistic it could simply take things a bit to far. It might remove some of the fun from the game.

Cheers,

[eddie]

1) Hardcoded AFAIK.

2) Defibs are designed to help in the resucitation of someone.

3) I think this has been suggested many times, not sure what the outcome has been.

4) Again, not sure if it's possible with the BF2 engine.

5) Not sure what's happening on the armour front

- The reason you have to request kits is to stop all the 'nilla noobs taking a sniper rifle or SAW and wandering off.

- If they have body armour and all this gear that the insurgents don't have then I'm sure they're very fit considering how much they can sprint at the moment.

- Yeah, I'd like to see their sprint time increased too.

- Possibly, it does reflect the time it would take to treat injuries though.

6) Yeah, that's definitely a good idea.

[jerkzilla]

1, squad size is hardcoded, I've heard it before...
2,To replace the defibs, the devs will most likely need a new animation for something that is essentially useless as far as gameplay goes.
3, you may have experienced lag, the crappy hit box detection or probably just missed.
4, engine limitation for all I know.
5, Now this here is actually a good idea, though it will very likely increase teamswitching. The devs should just increase the number of support weapons to like 6 on a full server instead of making them widely available, and I don't know about the stamina thing for the US and UK, they do carry the additional body armor.
This idea will very likely diversify the tactics used according to side. I'd like to see different approaches to combat like on Al Basra.
6, it's in Bf 2142 , the devs would have to redesign menus though, I seriously doubt it's anywhere near high on the to do list.

[ubiquitous]

I like the idea of 'western' teams having fewer tickets because casualty reports all over BBC news or CNN can turn a country off of a war really quickly.

[Hides-His-Eyes]

I like the idea of 'western' teams having fewer tickets because casualty reports all over BBC news or CNN can turn a country off of a war really quickly.

I agree; greater equipment/firepower + greater ticket loss would be reality

BUT

it would make playing MEC/PLA no fun at all, since you'd be outgunned and dieing so much more often and this has to be enjoyable even when its reality



Defribulators represent the casualty being dragged off the battlefield to safety i think

[jeffy777]

2) Defibs are designed to help in the resucitation of someone.

Yes, but being zapped with the Defibs and then instantly being able to start blasting away with your weapon is not realistic (but the fact that you will die shortly unless healed does help). Perhaps when you are revived, you shouldn't be able to move for a little while and your screen should be dark and then gradually fade in as you come back to consciousness. May not be fully possible with the engine, and probably been suggested before, but it would be much more realistic.

Concussion effects may include; knocking a person over, black out, shakey cam, or otherwise make taking accurate aim very difficult.

Yes, when you get hit you should be affected, instead of able to react as if nothing happened, basically. That would be really cool if any of the effects you mentioned could be added

[Mongolian_dude]

apart from the medic loosing the defib....how else do you revive someone?

Havent you ever watched baywatch?

...mongol...

[::Major_Baker::]

Increase Stamina of US/UK forces to reflect their better training/motivation

I like all of them except for the above. If there's one thing we've learned in Iraq, it is that there is no shortage of motivation in the insurgency. If anything it should be reversed from what you suggested. Those are some damn motivated people--they might not even be getting paid..

[Hides-His-Eyes]

devs, engine prospects on adding tunnel vision/blacking/whiting out to each bullet hit?

[PRC_Heavy_Z]

I agree with all of your suggestions except for #5.
I can tell you firsthand that PLA trainning is equivalent if not better than US trainning as of right now(I don't know much about UK programs)

Regarding the amour vests, China has their own indigenous ceramic and other plate inserts. Infact, US actually buys a lot of protective vests from China. MEC probably gets imported amour vests from either China or Germany, so they probably have descent armour as well.

and what makes UK/US medics so special?

[stringue]

Thanks for replys,

"Numbers 1 and 4 arent possible due to Engine limitations."

It seems a real shame squad size is hardcoded, I emailed DICE asking them to fix this, so you never know!

"how else do you revive someone?"

Defribs are unrealistic and gamey, I realise removing them would massively change gameplay for better or worse, but perhaps with other changes it could be less drastic;

- Troops would have better torso protection (all round if PLA/MEC have carbide inserts, i didnt realise this b4), It took me 2 shots with an SA80 to take out a UK bot while shooting the torso, a rl incident (scroll down to july 05) involving a dragunov with AP rounds seems to suggest modern troops have decent protection.

- Perhaps the current 'mortally wounded' (i cant remember now exactly what it says but it pops up on screen) could say 'knocked out/concussed/nothing/similar' and when the timer expires (shorter?) the player recover's of his/her own accord. Oh perhaps this could happen a lot more frequently then and would make up for lack of 'knocked over'/concussed animations.

- I don't know if this can be done, but injury's to limbs etc. would put a player out of the fight (red tinted screen, sound effects like when currently wia), and perhaps this is where the medic can redeem itself.

- If a player is killed then there is always the current spawn system, though perhaps also there could be more jeeps at the main base's to represent 'reinforcements' getting to the required area quicker.

As it seems I was bit a biased towards Western superiority perhaps then only the insurgent class would be different, they could have fast respawn to make up for this, great sprint speed and stamina, awful weapons and protection, perhaps more of a 'fun' less strategic (if one is so inclined) class to play.

[AnRK]

Sorry but Guerillas and Insurgents all over the world are only still existent BECAUSE of their tactics.

Many of the greatest tacticians have worked within these situations (Mao's probably the best example) where they have been greatly outnumbered and had inferior equipment.

And as for motivation I think with the propaganda efforts of Chinese communism and militant Islamic leaders if anything they should be much more motivated.

And if you think about it who's gonna be more used to the desert climate? Someone born and raised there (then brainwashed into some stupid ultra violent section of their countries religion) or some pale as anything British troop. Who's gonna be more used to humid dangerous jungle conditions? A Marine or an indigenous PLA soldier, who knows what local wildlife is a threat to them like the back of their hands, or a US army grunt?

*EDIT* Sorry you seem to have acknowledged this already.

With regards to the defibrillator, it's not an instant revive like your making it out to be. Firstly if your shot in the head or blown up by a grenade at short range your non-reviveable. Secondly if you are revived you have to be treated for a good few seconds to stop the bleeding.

[77SiCaRiO77]

Thanks for replys,

"how else do you revive someone?"

Defribs are unrealistic and gamey, I realise removing them would massively change gameplay for better or worse, but perhaps with other changes it could be less drastic;

its a metaphor of helping your injured budy to take cover and help him .

but would be cool if you can kill the critical injured , so they cant be *revived*

[jeffy777]

Secondly if you are revived you have to be treated for a good few seconds to stop the bleeding.

Yes, but you can instantly leap to your feet after being revived, start blasting away with your gun, and even sprint away if you want to. Is that realistic? Not at all. I know it's more realistic than vanilla BF2, but still very arcade-ish if you really think about it. The fact that you have to be healed or you'll soon die is good, but there should be something added like I suggested earlier:

When you are revived, you shouldn't be able to move for a little while and your screen should be dark and then gradually fade in as you come back to consciousness. May not be fully possible with the engine, and probably been suggested before, but it would be much more realistic.

[daranz]

That would be even more unrealistic. A real life medic does not leave a fallen comrade where he fell, giving him medical attention in that precise spot. If someone gets hit and taken out of the fight in real life, his buddies will probably pull him back somewhere safer where he can be given medical attention. Since you can't carry or drag people in BF2, the next best thing is reviving them to a critically wounded state so they can pull back on their own. I believe that's what one of the devs said somewhere, though I don't have a link at the moment.

Perhaps a messed up vision right after revive would be a good thing, but I think immobilizing injured persons is somewhat like missing the whole point.

[jeffy777]

That would be even more unrealistic. A real life medic does not leave a fallen comrade where he fell, giving him medical attention in that precise spot. If someone gets hit and taken out of the fight in real life, his buddies will probably pull him back somewhere safer where he can be given medical attention. Since you can't carry or drag people in BF2, the next best thing is reviving them to a critically wounded state so they can pull back on their own. I believe that's what one of the devs said somewhere, though I don't have a link at the moment.

Perhaps a messed up vision right after revive would be a good thing, but I think immobilizing injured persons is somewhat like missing the whole point.

If you really think about it, would someone who was critically wounded really return to the battlefield within 30-60 seconds or whatever it takes to revive and heal them in the game? No, it may be days, weeks, till they fully recover and are ready to go back to battle, if ever. So in reality, the whole Defib thing is very unrealistic.

I see your logic about dragging your buddies out, but in real life, you drag your buddies out and do your best to treat their wounds, but they are going to get MEDEVACed out ASAP and not go blazing back into the battle as if nothing ever happened.

Really, the Defibs take a lot away from the realism.

[AnRK]

In the game most of the time I've seen people revived they duck out the fight to somewhere more covered then they get given first aid. I very rarely see people opening fire straight after being revived. I would of thought as well first aid has to be done as quickly as possible so would that not mean that it would be carried out fairly close to where a soldier went down?

I do see what you mean though, a few people do get revived then instantly go on to start laying down rounds with a machine gun or casually getting out their anti tank weapon and directing it at the armour that just took them down.

I think what might be nice is to have a delay after being revived where all you can do is crawl unarmed until you get to cover and get treated, or if possible make it so you have to wait until your at full health or 80-90% or something until you can get up and fight.

What might also be nice is to have field hospitals at main bases. So when a soldier goes down, then is revived and healed, they are much less mobile, shoot with less accuracy, have less stamina, etc, until they are taken back to a field hospital to be fully treated.


I can imagine the hardcoding of alot of things in BF2 would prevent alot of that, and alot of people wouldn't go to the effort of going back to a field hospital, and would either stick it out or rambo and respawn. It's a similar situation to what we have with the pilots, how to make the game realistic but without having ways of bypassing the realism.