Reality? You can't handle reality!

[chew6acca]

I have a vision for BF2.

Virtually no-one agrees with me.

here it is -

1 Flags behind the AAS 'frontline' are attackable but change much more slowly.

If I own some turf you should be able to attack it - but it should be harder to capture than an area in the combat zone.

When it turns white I should have enough time to get to the flag to try and kick you out.

If you still capture the flag - well done - you get to open a second front.

But to make this work will require -

2 No squad leader spawn. If you want to attack behind enemy lines - get a goddamn helicopter / jeep / apc - and good luck!

This is Reality remember? I don't remember soldiers teleporting into battle in Iraq?

It won't work if squad leader spawn still exists.

APC spawn could also be abused if all flags are capturable.

The kit bag spawns are nearly ok - but would it be possible to make the model much bigger - like a tent or barracks or something?

Take away squad leader spawn - and then you know when an attack is over - it's over!

If you miss one or two enemies it's not a big deal - because if they try to take the flag they will soon die. If someone spots them - they can be easily overwhelmed.

You know you're not going to have a full squad there in 30seconds.

I know this idea is very unpopular, but is this an arcade game?

Thanks for reading.

[Hides-His-Eyes]

I sympathise, but we're working with 32v32 soldiers. The forward spawn systems are to amke battle troop numbers more realistic.

The number of tickets you start with take away a chunk for bleed is what they've got to simulate all fighitng at once.

[chew6acca]

what do you mean - is 32v32 too many or not enough?

With no teleport then won't people be LESS spread out?

With AAS the battle is concentrated in one or two areas.

Are the maps too big?

OK - The game will need a slight tweak,

but

What is the point of having 'territory', ie flags, or a frontline - if the enemy can spawn anywhere at will?

I know combat is chaos, but you should at least know roughly where the enemy is coming from - eg a group of buildings.

I am not a military expert - IRL what sort of objectives would require six 5-man squads? secure a village? set up a few road blocks?

[Dyer |3-5|]

This would be a cool game mode, but i also agree that we need the forward spawn to increase number of troops on front lines.

[Desertfox]

This is Reality remember? I don't remember soldiers teleporting into battle in Iraq?

[/SIZE]

People dont automatically just respawn but its something that has to be done.

[EagleEyeLG]

Eh, I see your point, but for one, you'll lose a whole lot of playerbase if this were to be added. Also, you have to depend on drivers and pilots. That could be cool, but if your means of transportation are gone because someone sucks at driving or piloting, then the game will suck and everyone will leave.

[$kelet0r]

I totally agree with chewy - I'd even further and suggest that unless the squadleader were to fall back to an APC or rally point to request a soldier respawn (to simulate evac of wounded/kia's and fresh reinforcements arriving), that you would have to respawn at base

[daranz]

In real life, you don't have a limit of 32 soldiers on the battlefield, so that people have to die first, so that they get replaced, one by one.

In real life, a lot of troops are committed into battle, and if they die, they die. Getting killed does not result in them coming into the battlefield one by one, where they have to sit on their asses and wait for others to come in one by one as well.

In real life, you can have a lot more assets to secure already occupied areas, and still have plenty of people to send to the frontline.

In real life, if your squad got wiped out, and you retreated, you'd either link up with a larger force with no 6 man limit, and keep on fighting, or, in case of casualties, you'd get medevaced out of there and be done for the day. You certainly wouldn't experience communication breakdowns with people standing next to you.

[chew6acca]

In real life, you can have a lot more assets to secure already occupied areas, and still have plenty of people to send to the frontline.

That is why flags behind the frontline change more slowly -so that you don't have to keep men at every flag to defend, spending most of the game doing nothing.

I imagine lots of people would complain about having no squad leader respawn - but "it has to be done" is not a good reason to keep it.

[MadTommy]

hey chew6acca have a look at this thread.. its not exactley the same, but close. But look for Eggman's comments, post 32.. (I dont want you to waste your time on elements of your suggestion that you may be getting anyway)

http://realitymod.com/forum/showthread. ... +main+base

[Fenix16]

I hate it when people make posts with large lettering bringing up ideas that have already been brought up before.

[Falkun]

As it is now, rally points are used to simulate a larger force than is currently supported; makes perfect sense to me. What if there was a spawn limit on them? That is, a limit on the amount of spawns for an RP, in order to simulate the fact that reinforcements are not always so unlimited and forthcoming. This will force squads to be more cautious and may slow down gameplay further.

[Hfett]

Agree with 2

My opnion on 1 (not talking in the name of the pr team, since im not a dev)

AAS exists to simulate a Real battle, on Real life, no amry would let a outpost, without people defending it
But since we can only have 64 people on a server if we were to left people defending each flag, on a map that have 8 flags it would be more like squadXsquad, instead of Army X army

that way, to pretend that 2 armys are fighting each other, we need to pretend, that we cant attack the next flag, because it is heavily defended, that is why you need to weak the enemy by attacking flag X before moving to Y

[chew6acca]

Thanks Tommy. I appreciate the link - explains the philosophy of PR.

shame the subject has been dismissed -

"like it or not they are not going away"

btw - I do not agree with main spawn only.

My "no spawn" suggestion is necessary to allow fair play when attacking behind enemy lines. AAS will remain - but the owned flags are more defendable because they change slowly. capturing a flag behind enemy lines should be very tough - but will open up the game tactically.



and to quote myself - if rally points are necessary - " would it be possible to make the model much bigger - like a tent or barracks or something?"



fenix -

I know these ideas have all been suggested seperately and discussed ad infinitum - but I am trying to argue for a number of changes to be implemented together to create a consistent and coherent style of gameplay.

the font size is so people like you know which bits are most important. Kind of makes it easier to read. It means you can just read them and ignore the rest, saving you from wasting your valuable time - which you can then use more constructively by, for example, making posts in the suggestions section of the forum which actually contain suggestions.

I also have no expectation that the children will want to give up their sl spawn ability - because they might not be able to shoot people in the back so often. Reality = teleportation? whatever

[ZanderArch]

I disagree, the whole AAS system was so it was a good fight with Force on Force conflicts that could have the larger half of a team taking the next flag with the smaller half defending only the necessary flags rather than worrying about some ninja going back to your home base and capping that.
I'm all for Ninja Special Forces that will cut off Reinforcements, sneak into a base an take out Commander Toys, blow up your unused Helio so your team won't get it in the air until it respawns five minutes later, but as PR's main goal of AAS was, (not an exact quote, but close) "To eliminate the 'Whack-A-Mole' Gameplay of Conquest"

The only Flag borne conflict should be at the ones HQ is yelling about in big Orange letters at the top left of your screen. If anything, "God" should strike down anyone who enters an enemy flag that isn't the target of AAS at that point, but that's asking a bit much since a few times my squad an me have sneaked behind enemy lines and got our team two flags for the price of one by getting the flag coming down the moment the one before it went Red White and Blue without so much as having one enemy the chance to defend the flag.

As for making the Spawn System more realistic, I think it's fine. Sure, it's a bit off, but like everyone said, we can't have massive force on force conflicts so the ticket and front line spawn system are to keep the game intense without repeating the annoyingly realistic "Back Line to Conflict Hoofing" that happens in the beginning of the game again and again.

[El_Vikingo]

LMAO @ the people who think they are the first to come up with ideas.

what do you mean - is 32v32 too many or not enough?

Are the maps too big?

You have seen nothing yet.

I am not a military expert

There's your answer.

[ZanderArch]

LMAO @ the people who think they are the first to come up with ideas.

If that was directed at me, then I'd suggest that you go and preform sexual intercourse on your self.
I was simply reinforcing any suggestions that came before mine with my own input on it. I just prefer to elaborate on my agreement more than the simple "Yeah, Good idea." or "No, bad idea." one sentence response.

If it wasn't directed at me, it still seems a bit uncalled for, but I do not suggest that you go an preform sexual intercourse on your self.

[oS2007]

Hey!! Enough belittling of my second favorite pastime!

Now. Is it just me, or did the starter of this thread never once say that this would be the ONLY available mode of play? I mean, suppose it hits the spot? Let some n00bs come in and get very annoyed, loose them, some of the hard-hitters come in and stick around......

I do agree that the idea could use some better presentation. Particularly, devoid of big letters.

[eggman]

use a more useful subject line. and maybe the search engine.

[Doom721]

Owned

Yeah I do agree squad leader spawn isn't very ... nuff' said.

Otherwise I love the way flags function atm, I just wish there was a way to stop ... let me explain

Your PLA on ghost train, your on south bridge, its british, you get PAST white into the "blue" spectrum of flag capping, and you lose say Trenches, I wish flag capping for south bridge would stop simulating a retreat

On topic: Yeah I don't want to go to whack a mole flags, I tried playing some vanilla SF ( I miss night maps its all I played in vanilla ) and whack a mole isn't really fun. Squadleader spawn though, I wish it was gone, but since I THINK I heard placing a rally will require troops around you in the future, maybe squad lead spawning is still needed

My two cents! ( or 2 euro currency )