Consistency, sack & loot, respawn time and dying penalty

[AoP]

Good day to you,

after playing this mod for a little while now, I did not find a reasonable explanation to some of these items that came to my mind:
- Why do insurgents not get shock paddles? One should believe they would have been able to loot some of those from dead GIs or Brits or whomever and they do as well have people with the knowledge to work on complex electronic devices, so why wouldn't they have been able to rebuild/copy them?

- Why do insurgents light AT kits get those RPGs and just stupid little pistols while their counterparts get assault rifles? It should at least be possible to give them something like an MP5, a MAC-10, an UZI or any other PDW, something that's a little more powerful and a little less liquor-store-raid-like. I mean, seriously, the whole middle east is considered to be a place where almost everyone owns an AK or other assault rifle, so why don't people who are actively engaged in combat get something like that?

- Why does one have to get killed on certain positions in vehicles? Say you're spawning on a vehicle where only the driver has the crewman kit and the only seat left is the gunner: you're condemned to die again if the driver doesn't stop the vehicle within 10 seconds, because even if you hop out of the vehicle at full speed, you'll be taking damage. Just make the gunner seats etc. unuseable without crewman kit, that should be fairly enough.

In addition, here's a few more thoughts on the plans to force the respawn time and dying penalty in 0.6 and not leave it a server setting, originally written on another forum:

To me personally, I'm being turned away because of the long spawn times. It's far beyond frustrating to lie dying 25 seconds, get revived, have an enemy squad pop up from out of nowhere and lie there again for another 30 +x seconds without even having gotten up. Let that happen twice a round and I spent already 2 minutes rotting in my own virtual blood.
Or: I spawn on a squadleader, who's just in that very moment being naded... that's yet another 60+x seconds with barely having done more than pressing the prone key maybe.
Or: I spawn on a Rally Point that has been discovered and is now being camped by the enemy - yay. Yet another 60+x seconds.
In all these cases, I'm not being punished for my own stupidity, for my own careless approach, for my lack of teamwork or anything. I'm being punished for the lack of care or the stupidity of my teammates or maybe even just punished for bad luck.
That whole spawn time / dying penalty thing is totally overrated. The loss of accuracy on the guns when rushing around should be enough to force a more careful approach. The fact you're getting more points for sticking to a squad and working together than for occasionally killing someone, should force teamwork.
The problem is just you can't force people to do something they're not willing and - in most cases - are not able to do. If you end up in a squad of clueless idiots (which still seems to be more likely than anything else), you'll end up without voice communication, without teamwork, without anything worth the while.

Project Reality definitely has the potential to be one the most exciting scions that were grown on the Battlefield 2 agars. However, so far at least and I doubt that'll change, the reality on most servers (at least those I played on) is far from what quite obviously has been intended.

Not all people who join and play this mod have mics or open their mouths and communicate. Not all squadleaders (or high-rankers in general) have a clue of squadleading and strategy.
What's being left on that road is my fun. If I get one or two good rounds in 20, i.e. rounds that are won or closely lost after doing really good as a squad and team in general, that's just not enough.

Well, enough. I'm looking forward to some some good replies to my items mentioned above. Please spare any flaming because I just don't give a damn.

[Gyberg]

*taking cover from the oncoming flames* Use the search function and check the allready suggested suggestions thread before posting.......

[bosco_]

You better put this on quickly

[IronTaxi]

fairly put at least...

none of your suggestions/idea are new and they have all been discussed to death... we have a highly democratic DEV group with plenty of opinions...thats not a flame thats a fact...

trust me...we go over this stuff again and again and again....but this is the way we want it... so thats the way it is...(please remember there is always a give and take when we are trying to implement new things...youd be suprised how many stupid ideas we come up with ourselves)


id like to address your final point though...

yeah..i too dont often get fantastic games as i tend to play at odd hours due to being in japan... BUT this best advice i can give you is to start building a network of friends adn players that you can play with regularly and on a regular server...

in my experience this is the best way to ensure a worthwhile round...

[Gyberg]

IronTaxi']BUT this best advice i can give you is to start building a network of friends adn players that you can play with regularly and on a regular server...

in my experience this is the best way to ensure a worthwhile round...

QFT

[AoP]

after playing this mod for a little while now, I did not find a reasonable explanation to some of these items that came to my mind:

If there's (in this order) FAQ, moderated Wiki (i.e. one where not every Joe Average is entitled to fill up facts with own opinion) or sticky posting that answer my points, please direct me there.

IronTaxi']
[good input]

Thanks IronTaxi. I tried building up a group of people to play with, but my clanmates don't play PR because they enjoy the arcade factor of vBF2 too much and even the better teamwork rounds I experienced so far were usually built around few people, not enough to win rounds, and ended in getting badly raped.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

Well if you got raped, that must mean the other team was using teamwork.
I understand your points about spawning to death because your squad mates didn't tell you the RP was being camped. As far as spawning on SL goes you should always let the SL know you are about to spawn to you don't scare the bejesus out of him and get reflex TK'd.
The microphone issue I have absolutely no sympathy for.
The game (BF2) cost about 40US and you need a pretty good computer to run PR so if you can't invest the extra 10-100 dollars on a mic then you won't be playing the game as it's intended.

Project Reality definitely has the potential to be one the most exciting scions that were grown on the Battlefield 2 agars
I also take strong exception to that comment.
PR is the best FPS available IMHO and has the potential to be even greater.
There is not another game that offers as much.
I would also point out that PR is in the fraction stage...ie: .5 not 1.5 or even 5.
The game evolves constantly and some changes don't work out as well as expected but overall it's the best war game you can play.
IronTaxi hit the nail on the head by saying you have to make some buddies out there and look for them when you play.
The forums are a good place to start as we want you and your clan mates to play PR and many of us will do what we can to help you enjoy the game.

[carld2002]

My mike was $1.46 new and it works just as well as my old $30 mike.

Yeah i have to agree. Before PR, I thought there could never be a game that is better than operation flashpoint.

Just want to address your points in general: You find some parts of PR annoying that are essensial parts of the mod. You will grow into this and realize why things are realistic, fun, fair, and you will learn to love them.

[El_Vikingo]

To me personally, I'm being turned away because of the long spawn times. It's far beyond frustrating to lie dying 25 seconds, get revived, have an enemy squad pop up from out of nowhere and lie there again for another 30 +x seconds without even having gotten up. Let that happen twice a round and I spent already 2 minutes rotting in my own virtual blood.
Or: I spawn on a squadleader, who's just in that very moment being naded... that's yet another 60+x seconds with barely having done more than pressing the prone key maybe.
Or: I spawn on a Rally Point that has been discovered and is now being camped by the enemy - yay. Yet another 60+x seconds.

You think 25 seconds is a lot?

A tip; Stop running around like a headless chicken and you die less.

Don't spawn on a rally point that being camped.

[Outlawz7]

It takes a while to adapt....but becomes fun...
Just play for a bit more, and you'll get a different opinion in no time

Also, remember the useful stuff said above

[0rpheus]

About the shock paddles....What force keeps you from taking a dead USMC medic's kit? I do it all the time, there are lots of medics running around, just spawn as a medic and hang around your squad and do your thing, you'll usually find one laying around in a minute or so.

[mdterp1987]

I find that the map Al Basrah messes with people's minds and makes people do dumb s**t all the time. For your sake, stay away from this map (even though Duckhunt did and amazing job) and any 24/7 servers to find much better teamplay.

[AoP]

I find that the map Al Basrah messes with people's minds and makes people do dumb s**t all the time. For your sake, stay away from this map (even though Duckhunt did and amazing job) and any 24/7 servers to find much better teamplay.

That is an advice I'll take without regret. The map looks really good, but what I experienced on that map up to now is far from good. My favorite map so far is actually Operation Ghost Train, one of the few I managed to keep my KDR solidly over 1 and didn't spend half the round watching my respawn screen.

On the mic issue: Just to clarify this: I am member of a gaming community and before that was member of a clan. I'm used to using Teamspeak and Ventrilo and ingame voip since BF2 has been released and before that in other games. Others are to blame, not me. Just in case I expressed myself unclear.

What I did though was sticking to people with ranks that (should) equal a certain expertise and playing time, hoping they would have more of a clue on how to survive in this game. I have been proven wrong in many cases.

@El_Vikingo:
Dude, you don't know me or how I play, so those comments are stupid and totally uncalled for, which is why I won't even bother replying any further.
Btw, isn't iGi the group that runs a PR server on which ingame VoIP is DISABLED?

What force keeps you from taking a dead USMC medic's kit?

The simple fact that I'm usually dead before them.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

The reality is the the medic is almost useless to the Insurgent.
The shock paddles I mean, because the body disappears so fast you rarely have time to revive.
With regard to mics, I have one and sometimes I just don't feel chatty and I won't talk for the first few minutes until something happens and I just reflexively start calling out warnings.
On the other hand while slightly inebriated on Friday I kept hitting the mic key every time I spoke to the gf on the phone, thoroughly confusing my squad mates.

[El_Vikingo]

Insurgents can be revived because when they go down they are killed, NOT critically wounded.

I got so **** ****** ** ******* **** Pissed every time I played insurgent, because everyone was scoring headshots on me!

Now I know.

[DirtyHarry88]

I find that the map Al Basrah messes with people's minds and makes people do dumb s**t all the time. For your sake, stay away from this map (even though Duckhunt did and amazing job) and any 24/7 servers to find much better teamplay.

For me, Basrah is the best map by miles, I love the 24/7 servers, especially if you get a lot of regulars in.

[Wasteland]

DevFile used to have lots of regulars for a time. Now it's always empty though

[Ghostrider]

Why do insurgents not get shock paddles? One should believe they would have been able to loot some of those from dead GIs or Brits or whomever and they do as well have people with the knowledge to work on complex electronic devices, so why wouldn't they have been able to rebuild/copy them?

They have way less re-spawn penalty, and you can think of it as the difference between Combat Medics (US/UK) and your average militia-man..

- Why do insurgents light AT kits get those RPGs and just stupid little pistols while their counterparts get assault rifles? It should at least be possible to give them something like an MP5, a MAC-10, an UZI or any other PDW, something that's a little more powerful and a little less liquor-store-raid-like. I mean, seriously, the whole middle east is considered to be a place where almost everyone owns an AK or other assault rifle, so why don't people who are actively engaged in combat get something like that?

We're more than inclined to believe military advisors that have been to those places, in comparison to your notion of how things "should be". Also, suggesting to give them MAC-10s, or MP5 isnt any more realistic than their current arsenal. We also have to be careful not to create a "super class"..so we make gameplay considerations as well because BF2 does have limits.

- Why does one have to get killed on certain positions in vehicles? Say you're spawning on a vehicle where only the driver has the crewman kit and the only seat left is the gunner: you're condemned to die again if the driver doesn't stop the vehicle within 10 seconds, because even if you hop out of the vehicle at full speed, you'll be taking damage. Just make the gunner seats etc. unuseable without crewman kit, that should be fairly enough.

It should be a little obvious by now, after 5 releases, that if just "making a seat unseatable" was possible, we would've implemented it that way long ago, but like I said; BF2 has moddability limits...so we have to rely on workarounds and in players to actually take the time to read the player guide...

In addition, here's a few more thoughts on the plans to force the respawn time and dying penalty in 0.6 and not leave it a server setting, originally written on another forum:

To me personally, I'm being turned away because of the long spawn times. It's far beyond frustrating to lie dying 25 seconds, get revived, have an enemy squad pop up from out of nowhere and lie there again for another 30 +x seconds without even having gotten up. Let that happen twice a round and I spent already 2 minutes rotting in my own virtual blood.
Or: I spawn on a squadleader, who's just in that very moment being naded... that's yet another 60+x seconds with barely having done more than pressing the prone key maybe.
Or: I spawn on a Rally Point that has been discovered and is now being camped by the enemy - yay. Yet another 60+x seconds.
In all these cases, I'm not being punished for my own stupidity, for my own careless approach, for my lack of teamwork or anything. I'm being punished for the lack of care or the stupidity of my teammates or maybe even just punished for bad luck.
That whole spawn time / dying penalty thing is totally overrated. The loss of accuracy on the guns when rushing around should be enough to force a more careful approach. The fact you're getting more points for sticking to a squad and working together than for occasionally killing someone, should force teamwork.
The problem is just you can't force people to do something they're not willing and - in most cases - are not able to do. If you end up in a squad of clueless idiots (which still seems to be more likely than anything else), you'll end up without voice communication, without teamwork, without anything worth the while.

Project Reality definitely has the potential to be one the most exciting scions that were grown on the Battlefield 2 agars. However, so far at least and I doubt that'll change, the reality on most servers (at least those I played on) is far from what quite obviously has been intended.

Not all people who join and play this mod have mics or open their mouths and communicate. Not all squadleaders (or high-rankers in general) have a clue of squadleading and strategy.
What's being left on that road is my fun. If I get one or two good rounds in 20, i.e. rounds that are won or closely lost after doing really good as a squad and team in general, that's just not enough.

Well, enough. I'm looking forward to some some good replies to my items mentioned above. Please spare any flaming because I just don't give a damn.

I'll inform you that rewarding players for teamwork is not as efficient as forcing teamwork through penalties. Unfortunate, but punishing the player for lone-wolfing is a more reliable way of making him/her play as a team.
I'm sorry for the player that made the quoted post, but we won't lower the spawn times.

There're lots of vBF2 players that get drawn to the mod itself but do not want to adapt to the gameplay we've created...so they bash, complain, and/or leave if they don't succeed in dumbing down the game and experience like they did to vBF2 in the EA forums. We won't miss players like that.

That said, we all have our "bad days" in the field or just plain bad luck, or players that don't follow server rules. There're good servers around where teamwork is normally going and admins quick to kick/ban idiots like those. I should also add that it is the duty of the community to educate the noobs when inside a server. Sometimes when I play, I find clueless people that are eager to learn how to play the mod correctly, but no one helps them out. If you're so good yourself, then help the noobs out, and you might even establish contact with a group that you can play every time you log in.

We should establish the HelpTheN00bsFoundation.org in order to donate funds for their DEV-Approved training.


-Ghost