Weapons in BF2

hatter · Post by **hatter** » 2005-10-23 00:25

Hello,

Brand new member here. Really wanted a soldier sim, so I guess this is it. Have played 0.1 a little, pretty nice. When I first loaded up BF2, I couldn't help notice that there were a few inaccuracies in the weapons available (in terms of simply visuals). I'll focus primarily on the USMC, as MEC is ficitional.

I realize that some or all of these may have been mentioned before, a lot of times, but I just wanted to point them out again...

Longarms
M16A4
The rifle in the game is the M16A2 and the over and under M16A2/M203. I believe current issue for frontline USMC is M16A4. I also think there should be a variety of models for the M16A4 and M16A4/M203, each with varying attachments such as IR boxes, cheekrests, para cord, painting, etc., to represent the varying conditions of weapons used by soldiers. The difference essentially is:
- Flattop railed upper receiver, mated to either optics or a detacheable carry handle.
- Knight's Armament M5 RAS, a rail system similar to that found in the default "SpecOps" longarm.
-M203 is still incorporated over and under, but the launcher is attached without the "cheese grater" handgaurd: it is attached rearward to the barrel and forward of the front sight post by a Knight's QD retention clip. The bottom rail of the RAS is removed to allow for installation.
[1]
[2]

SAM-R
This is pretty recent, but seen extensively in OEF/OIF. Essentially a AR15 pattern rifle mated with a 20" Kreiger SS barrel and a freefloat tube. Optics is Leupold MR/T. I think this semi-auto rifle is much more appropriate as a counter to the SVD, seeing as how both rifles are semi-automatic and are used in the "designated marksman" role, a class that could be added?
[1]

M40A3
This error was almost blatant: DICE put in an M24, the Army's rifle, as the SS rifle. It should be replaced with the M40A3 w/ an Unertl or USO scope. Essentially:
- Rem 700 short action
- McMillan A4 stock
- Badger Ordnance base and rings
[1]

Sidearms
For realism's sake, I really think all troopers besides MFR should not have a sidearm at all, but who knows, its very useful.

Kimber ICQB
This is replacing the Quantco-built MEU(SOC) pistol and is being fielded with MFR and MCSOCOM. Essentially a single stack 5" 1911 with a removeable Picatinny rail under the frame. Could be incorporated with the Surefire IMPL just for looks. Could replace the M9 used by the SOF class. The SOF class should probably be renamed Marine Force Recon or MCSOCOM if you want to keep it Marine-only.
[1]

Ill cook up some more. Comment and criticize, please.

Mad Max · Post by **Mad Max** » 2005-10-23 00:40

You forgot the Blackhawk issue. They should have made CH-53E Super Stallions instead as the rolls the hawks are used for in game is exactly the roll the Stallions are used for. Also it would be much more balanced against the Mi-8's and Chinese transport (whatever it's called, always forget the damn name). Anything but a god damn minigun too. Stick an M2HB on the damn thing to make it even more balanced. At least it's realistic too so it's not JUST for gameplay sake.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2005-10-23 01:04

welcome to the forums and its good to see youre looking out for these things. however PRMM wont change anything asthetically except for the addition of the little bird and blood... so at least for the minimod these things will stay.

Raaschou · Post by **Raaschou** » 2005-10-23 04:21

hatter wrote:Hello

Hello!

Good points, budt as BA said, most likely to enter PR, not PRMM...

Hopefully the developers are viewing, coz' you have some good observations!

And these "little" adjustments shouldn't be neglictised, as this is what make's it "realistic"!

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2005-10-23 05:08

Welcome aboard, hatter. Yes, these weapons all have already been suggested and/or thought of by the Dev-team,including the differences in terminology /order of battle used by the USMC. The Marines won't be the only representation of US forces in the game, just so you know.

Not every Marine, even on the frontline, has an M16A4, yet, so the M16A2 (without M203) will remain in the game. The Rifleman will probably be the only class with the M16A4 (different sights will be map dependent or somehow selectable, but full customization is not a possibility) with the M16A2 remaining for the combat engineer and medic / hospital corpsman. As a side-note, the M203 won't be on every rifleman's M16, either.

The SAM-R variant you described is used by the Marines on the East Coast. The "West Coast SAM-R" is a standard M16A4 (no free-floating barrel) with an ACOG 4x telescopic sight and Harris bipod. One or both may make it into the game, not sure. As for the sniper/scout-sniper vs. designated marksman debate, there will be a distinction in the roles and player models depending on which weapon is selected.

Re: appropriate counters and balancing of equipment with similar weapons (BTW, Max, the Chinese helicopter is the Z-8, a license built derivative of the SA 321 Super Frelon), let me reiterate that not every weapon or vehicle is going to have an exact equivalent in each force or on each map. Players will have to adapt to class, vehicle and team strengths and deficiencies.

We have already removed sidearms from every class except special ops, sniper and anti-tank. In real-life, special operators / scout-snipers are not the only soldiers who are issued sidearms. The Anti-Tank Assaultman gunner in a SMAW or Javelin team or the Machinegunner in an M240G MMG team is issued an M9 rather than a rifle according to USMC TO&E. Add to that list military police and officer and NCO unit leaders. In-game, whether or not a soldier gets a pistol will be map and class specific. If on a map, a team is represented by a special operations unit, every class might have a sidearm.

[Edit]Just a note, as weird as it may sound, the M24 is in limited service with the USMC. I have only heard of it / seen photos of it in use with their Military Police SRTs. Not sure of the reasons why, though.

hatter · Post by **hatter** » 2005-10-23 07:08

Thanks for the warm welcome from everyone. Yes, my suggestions would be for PR.

[R-DEV]Eddie Baker:

Excellent to hear from a dev member so quickly, and good to know (as I expected) that you have already thought of and considered all my suggestions.

I really like the idea of a designated marksman role, it seems to be getting a lot of attention lately, and could serve some actual functionality in the game.

What I have always wanted was a manner in which 'loadouts' could be selected, vis-a-vis just general classes. Again, this probably has been brough tup. I know that that would introduce unnecessary complexities to the game, but what if you could select a general 'class' with particularly expertise (i.e., S/S, SOF, riflegrenadier, pilot, driver) and then choose a loudout into available equipment slots (a-la Rainbow Six). All gear is available to all classes, but choices are made depending on how well an individual class uses said gear. This is really complicated, as it would introduce a whole slew of balancing issues, but it sounds cool.

I'm not technically keen on BF2, and I wonder if that is feasible given the simple class system present in the retail game.

Regarding M-24:
I just dont particularly like the rifle in comparison to the M40. There's nothing wrong with it, its a great shooter and the M700 platform is practically universal. I think the Army chose to use the long action as opposed to short action (in M40) because it wanted to be able to switch to various longer cartridges, such as .300 WinMag or .338 Lapua, later in the life cycle, but has not done so and will not do so. This makes long action moot. Plus, the A3 has a much more comfortable stock.