Please don't punish your APC spawnpoint.

[Killer-Ape]

I like how the PR's APC work as a spawpoint, supply and infantry support.. Correct use of the APC can somtimes tip the balance of a game. But usually on 'public' games I find it misused by inexperienced players.

Some good examples: Ejod, people drive in the open and get picked off by enemy Tanks or H-AT (happens to often at the beginning of each round). Al Basrah, drives inside city zone without proper infantry cover, mid game people tend to forget about apc's (either they camp airfield for planes/choppers or go on foot hunting objectives)

When making use of the apc my first priority points towards survival. If I live longer more players can spawn, more squadleaders can request officer kits and the ability to request H-AT kits outside main base (supply crates are rare). In other words, trying to keep a low profile. Only secondary do I use APC for killing and suppressing enemy infantry.

Now the point is that accidents sometimes happen. If my APC gets surrounded by five bloodthirsty-RPG-wielding insrugents all I can do is back the hell away. And at that moment its pretty hard to know if some friendly is behind you, even if you zoom in the minimap (not that you got the time to zoom in). So sometimes I tend to run over my fellow teammates, usually the ones that stay behind to long trying to request kits. Hell, sometimes it happens to me as well, and I never punish. Now when it comes to other players its 50/50. Some forgive right away and even show the respect to type "sorry my fault".. Then we got the other side that punishes a split second after death. I'ts not a big deal for me since I don't tk to often this way, but one thing that shakes my jello shake is that the punishers still got some nerve to spawn at my APC after the punish. I did not ask them to spawn there in the first place. They need to be thankful that somebody is trying to stay alive for the sake of the team. That's just really disrespectful. Im trying to help the team not teamkill it.

Why did I post it here? Well I know that most of the the PR-forum community consist of mature and respectful people. But one thing that shocked me was getting punished by a PR-DEV(won't mention his name).. I know they're are only human but c'omon, you know better dude.. Anyway don't see this as a rant.. just think about one thing..

Why are we so eager to punish?

[system]

I don't punish either, but it really gets me going when people TK on purpose. For example, I was on 24/7 Mashtur, and everytime someone would get in a Helicopter, he'd shoot the pilot. And he wasn't kicked. I hate people like that

[mammikoura]

I have quite a simple "guide" I use for punishing.

If it was my fault (running into his line of fire, jumping infront of his car etc) then I don't punish.

If it was his fault, I wait for a while. If he says something like "I'm sorry" "my bad" or something like that then I forgive him, if he doesn't then I punish him

And then there are those occasions where someone shoots you right to the face. Which is annoying since there is no way you make a mistake like that unless you are blind or something. In these cases I often punish him because he was simply stupid/careless.

As for what you described with the apc and teamkilling, in that case I'll wait for him to apologize. He just drove over me with a damn vehicle, if that doesn't qualify as something to apologize for then I don't know what will. If he doesn't apologize then I will probably punish him.

[JohnnyPissoff]

Punishing is a vBF2 mindset. The very first thing I noticed when I joined the PR community was the protocol of forgiving accidental TKs. TK punish in most cases is a sure sign of a BF2'oob.

[daranz]

Punishing should only be used for intentional TKs, end of story. Even if someone shoots you in the face at point blank, and they make it clear that they thought you were the enemy, there is no reason to punish them. Punishing is there to fight smacktards, and not to hurt your teammate because you're pissed about getting shot by them.

[Ecko]

I have quite a simple "guide" I use for punishing.

If it was my fault (running into his line of fire, jumping infront of his car etc) then I don't punish.

If it was his fault, I wait for a while. If he says something like "I'm sorry" "my bad" or something like that then I forgive him, if he doesn't then I punish him

And then there are those occasions where someone shoots you right to the face. Which is annoying since there is no way you make a mistake like that unless you are blind or something. In these cases I often punish him because he was simply stupid/careless.

As for what you described with the apc and teamkilling, in that case I'll wait for him to apologize. He just drove over me with a damn vehicle, if that doesn't qualify as something to apologize for then I don't know what will. If he doesn't apologize then I will probably punish him.

Guess what, If I'm in a combat zone, I've just been shot at with an RPG and I reverse over you I'm not going to say sorry, that's the least of my worries at that point. I'll contact a psychic later too talk to the dead, for now my main concern is being able to talk to the living.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

The multi-ton armored vehicle has the right of way...ALWAYS !

If you get run over by a tank or APC ....it's usually your fault or nobody's because you stepped from behind cover and got hit.

If an APC gets hit and you are behind it....then expect the vehicle to reverse to avoid being destroyed.

Last night .... I ran in front of the same APC twice in about 3 minutes .....each time the driver said sorry and I said" my bad" because it was.


You should almost always punish aircraft TK's, especially when there is more than 1 blue dot around you.

Aircraft, mostly A-10s on Al Basrah are my most often punished because A 10's are the worst teamkillers, often wiping out an entire squad because "Goober" the uber pilot just can't wait to bomb something, even if it's a gray flag with 10 friendlies around it.

Cobra cannon kills are another auto punish..... you have a zoom, so use it.


On the TFS server I hunted an A10 pilot after he killed 5 people but was not kicked because it was his clan's server even though a single TK by another non clan A10 pilot resulted in a kick.
I was eating lunch and spent the time mining the runway and TK'ing the pilot or being TK'd by him.

I have ABSOLUTELY NO TOLERANCE for A10 teamkills.

If you get shot in a firefight or naded even, do NOT punish...ever.

Long range sniper TK's when there are enemy around are another auto-forgive. But if you are alone, in the open then I punish and I tell him why I punished.

[Outlawz7]

Uff..I usually never have this problem...either I stop and they leave or they type "apc hold, requesting kit"....and people are usually smart enough to know, they cant bail out of a running APC....so they wait inside, and Ill eventually stop somewhere safe after a minute or so...

[Outlawz7]

Cobra cannon kills are another auto punish..... you have a zoom, so use it.

Reminds me of yesterday, Basrah, one Cobra down, another flying around firing mindlessly, suppressing/teamkilling every friendly, while the insurgents hop around with AKs and RPGs....

[JohnnyPissoff]

Yea I do agree there is a place for punishing at the very least as a learning tool. Cubs and mother wolves in a wolf pack sharply bite each other if one nips too hard to learn limits and rules of conduct.

[zeidmaan]

Basically if I'm alone and get TK I dont mind that much. It can happen to everyone, specially when there are bunch of red dots all around you.

What I really hate is when I'm with bunch of teammates and some blind dude mistakens us ALL for enemies.

What I REALLY REALLY !!!!!!! hate is when Im driving the APC at full speed and people keep jumping out in the middle of the desert and giving me TKs. I think they should be punished not me

[mammikoura]

Guess what, If I'm in a combat zone, I've just been shot at with an RPG and I reverse over you I'm not going to say sorry, that's the least of my worries at that point.

didn't say you have to say sorry at that very same seconds. I will be critically wounded for 30 seconds, so that gives you 30 seconds time.

And if you don't want to apologize then don't. I just think it's good that you apologize if you run over your friend with a 10 000kg+ vehicle.

[eggman]

I think the APCs in PR are amongst the coolest vehicles I have ever encountered in any FPS. Spawn Point, Kit Supply location, Ammo Supply Point, powerful cannon, etc.

Always pains me to see folks operating them like the Vanilla APCs.

[Rhino]

eggman']I think the APCs in PR are amongst the coolest vehicles I have ever encountered in any FPS. Spawn Point, Kit Supply location, Ammo Supply Point, powerful cannon, etc.

Always pains me to see folks operating them like the Vanilla APCs.

yep, APCs in PR can do so much damage

also you forgot there smoke function egg

[bosco_]

The problem is that too many people think that the APCs are assault vehicles that have to race from flag to flag...
WRONG!

When I use the APC, I do both driver's and gunner's job and set it up in a good position with overview, providing a spawnpoint for the team.
That often gets comments like "oMG dont camp with teh apc!!!111", but I don't care, as long as the team wins.

[Killer-Ape]

eggman']Always pains me to see folks operating them like the Vanilla APCs.

LOL, yea.. One explanation.. In vanilla H-AT fires slow-moving rubber rockets.. APC's are to fragile in real life for open frontal assults..

[Outlawz7]

I really don't like people driving around armor&cobras without gunners...

Then again, I dont care, as long as I can jihad them in the first run, cos the guy cant immediately switch to the turret and shoot a HEAT into me...
Or cobra flying over me and I wonder, why I havent been turned to cheese, then I see it dive-bomb something with Hydras and crash...

[Top_Cat_AxJnAt]

eggman']I think the APCs in PR are amongst the coolest vehicles I have ever encountered in any FPS. Spawn Point, Kit Supply location, Ammo Supply Point, powerful cannon, etc.

Always pains me to see folks operating them like the Vanilla APCs.

I have to agree. Before .5 came out, i would draw a nice little picture of a warrior IFV or LAV, with either a big US and UK flag hanging off the back and most importantly arrows directed at the key areas (rear - entry and kit pick up), turret, crew locations ext. and litttle lable describing what the arrow was pointing at (pilot possition, gunner, spwn point, 6 man passenger compartement). IF the vehicle was not that damn great i would not have wasted such precious AS maths learning time on creating such a wonderfull mini diagram!

Hell developement over the old APC but i look very forwed to the Warrior being added and i fear, palpatating fear of the Bradely being add, its the TOW you see *shudders and runs for TOW cover* what cover?

[{GD}Ghost]

I personally think that the punishment feature should be used only in extreme cases of ignorance or purposeful tking. I dare say that in most cases, tks are NOT on purpose. However people in general need to remember that they are not the only people on the battlefield. Part of teamwork is doing your best to be considerate of the other player's situation and realized that you are not the only player on the battlefield.

Since this is a mod based in realism, consider how these situations are handled in real life. People don't just run and drive willy nilly across the battlefield. I'm not saying that we should implement some type of traffic control mechanism (although it is needed), but please use some brains and consideration when operating vehicles and weapons. Also consider that visual awareness is restricted here as well.

To address one of the O.P.'s original points, I do think people need to learn how to use the equiptment the way its meant to be used and get vBF out of their heads. If you intend on playing the same way here as you played in vBF, then why move to this mod? /shrug

[Outlawz7]

One thing, I hate about punish system, is when someone crashes into you intentionaly or not, or rams you, till he gets destroyed and YOU GET A TK!

Thta pissed me off so much in vBF2, spending 45 minutes in a server for some lausy 25 points, only to lose them, when a tard intentionaly crashes into my APC with a hlaf destroyed FAV, get killed and punishes me for TK...goodbye hard earned points...
That started to make me wonder, why the fvck do I play the game..