Combining Mods

Salad_Shooter · Post by **Salad_Shooter** » 2007-05-21 20:11

This might have been hashed out already, but I think it should be an important discussion related to the longevity of current mods and how long they last. Lately I have been hard pressed to find a good server besides tactical gamer since devfile basrah 24/7 has been almost abandoned. The rest are either Europe or high pings on the east coast i'm guessing. Seems like the same fate as USI and other good mods that needed a little tweaking. The one thing that is missing from BF2 mods and BF1942 mods is the regular releases to keep people interested.

Maybe the only way to make this a reality is for the various mod teams to really look at what makes their mods so different and if those differences cannot be overcome to make larger mod teams like Desert Combat and Forgotten Hope had which made them so successful. USI has great models and sounds, its a waste that content isn't used in a mod which has great maps and gameplay like PRMM.

You guys really need to consider combining with another group like USI and make a mod that can continue to bring new aspects into the game at a regular pace instead of the 6 month cycle we currently have. This is not a knock at the hard work and the greatness the mod already is, more of a concern from a hardcore PRMM fan wanting to see it survive and not become another has-been. BF2 continues to lose gamers to other games because the cycle is taking too long. FH and DC had mini patches sometimes due to people finding glitches which altered the whole game, but people dealt with it. As it sits now FH2 won't be out till July/August? There goes my summer, I'm ready to abandon BF2 and see what other games I'm missing out on at this rate. All because they refuse to combine with other WW2 mods and combine efforts because their quality is "unsurpassed." I hope you don't follow the sinking ship mentality.

Clypp · Post by **Clypp** » 2007-05-21 20:25

It seems that the devs are pretty open to joining with other mods to share content. For example Black Sands Studios is a group of mods that work together and PR has borrowed some USI models through this arrangement.

Lots of mods do not want to share content though and it is up to them whether they want their work to be enjoyed or not.

geek81 · Post by **geek81** » 2007-05-21 20:30

hrmm...not the only one who sees PR kinda disappearing

There only seems to be 4-5 servers populated enough for decent gameplay.

Clypp · Post by **Clypp** » 2007-05-21 20:40

525 online right now as opposed to POE2's 114 and DCON's 190. PR is doing just fine. With a new release numbers will jump. If you play at nights numbers are far higher.

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » 2007-05-21 20:53

it's all doom and gloom with you lot, aint it??

Top_Cat_AxJnAt · Post by **Top_Cat_AxJnAt** » 2007-05-21 20:53

So glad to see players playing POE and DCON, even though i have not downloaded either, boths mods offer tons and tons of new equipement and maps - like SUPER VANLIA and any one who loves Vanila and has not tryed either of the mods is an indecent chimp.......jkes but matter of principle, more player bumming mods the better!

p.s hay, my comment is far from doom and gloom, therefore partialy contradicting gaz...not that it is my purpose in life <_<, >_>....

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » 2007-05-21 21:25

The dictionary is your nemesis Top_Cat, isn't it?

El_Vikingo · Post by **El_Vikingo** » 2007-05-21 21:35

LMAO at people who think PR is already starting to die.

Project Reality hasn't even begun!

Teek · Post by **Teek** » 2007-05-21 21:35

wrt op: Wait till 0.6

Post by **eggman** » 2007-05-21 22:08

The points are valid. Right now PR is the "most played" BF2 mod. If you take historical averages, PR always has been the most played mod. Realistically, that should NOT be the case... it's a niche mod with niche appeal.

But somehow the state of the BF mod player base is horribly small, nothing like the "hey day" of the BF42 and BFV mods such as FH and DC. I put that on a bunch of factors, but a lot of it rests with the ranking system imo.

So when you have concern for the future of PR .. er.. well.. ya gotta look at the other great mods out there that nobody is playing. It's such a shame!

wrt release cycles, well PR went something like:
0.1
+3 months
0.2
+ 4 months
0.3
+ 3 months
0.31
+3 months
0.32
+3 months
0.4
+3 months
0.5
+4 months
0.6

That's a pretty regular release cycle.

I'd DEFINITELY prefer to see releases every 60 days or so. We're getting closer to that (I hope).

Longbow* · Post by Longbow* » 2007-05-21 23:28

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman']
I'd DEFINITELY prefer to see releases every 60 days or so. We're getting closer to that (I hope).

Would be awesome

geek81 · Post by **geek81** » 2007-05-21 23:40

don't get me wrong, i dont want it to disappear.(and it prob isnt even close to it) I would just like to see more than 4-5 servers over half populated. maybe somehow i'm not seeing some or I'm on at the wrong time of day.

Wasteland · Post by **Wasteland** » 2007-05-21 23:42

Honestly we all knew that as the smacktards got tired of PR, they'd leave. It seems it's beginning. I don't think we were ever about maximizing users.

All you need is one good server. Gloryhoundz proved that.

Post by **eggman** » 2007-05-22 03:34

geek81 wrote:don't get me wrong, i dont want it to disappear.(and it prob isnt even close to it) I would just like to see more than 4-5 servers over half populated. maybe somehow i'm not seeing some or I'm on at the wrong time of day.

Now look at that from the perspective of the PoE, USI, OPK, EoD, DCon folks.... hundreds (if not thousands) of hours into mod development and the player populations are *very* tenuous. Some mods, really decent ones too, have 0 players on more often than not.

Modders get "paid" by seeing folks enjoy the fruits of their labor. Mod teams do a first release as part of an effort to get players on board... to get a small paycheck for work to date. Whe you release a mod and 300 people check it out... and then 2 weeks later nobody is playing it... it's pretty deflating to morale. I have huge respect for any of us modders who have persisted through those periods. PR was like that for months.

EA / DICE responds with ModLight, which is sporadic at best .. but has little lasting impact. As opposed to embracing the mod dev community, their busines model is all about alienating the mod dev community. This change in model comes about 4 months *after* BF2 is initially released and *after* a statement of strong commitment to the mod dev community was made (and never follow through).

Rather annoying given that DC for BF42 was a substantial factor in establishing BF2 as a AAA franchise.

PR is fortunate in that we never wanted to be "popular" or mainstream. How many people really want to play a BF2 franchise derivative where you die in 1 shot? It's an arcade game with huge potential from a teamwork perspective and limited potential from a realism perspective. The core audience buying BF2 is not really interested in realism & only mildly interested in teamwork.

I only ever wanted to have good quality game play available 24/7. I don't care if that is one server or 500.

PR will be around as long as people enoy playing it. From a game play perspective I honestly think that we are *just* now finding the capabilities in the team and the engine that allow us to do combined arms without losing the commitment to realism & teamplay.

Clypp · Post by **Clypp** » 2007-05-22 03:42

The more eggman thinks that PR is a niche mod and that people wont like the new release (as he said for 0.4 and 0.5 and now 0.6) the more people play the mod and stick around. In a strange twist the smaller the market PR tries to appeal to, the more popular it becomes.

Raniak · Post by **Raniak** » 2007-05-22 04:23

I wish Eggman was my dad so I could say "hey, Eggman is my dad !"...

Fat Zombie · Post by **Fat Zombie** » 2007-05-22 19:20

There is a lot of appeal in dying very easily. I find this, strangely enough; it's more hilarious, somehow. Which is why I play stuff like this (Battlegrounds, an American War of Independence-themed HL2 DM mod, where you can die VERY quickly, is also hilarious; even better, somehow, because the weapons are really inaccurate.)

Basically, I like to die and respawn in games. Which is why I do it so often, arf arf. ¬_¬

ZaZZo · Post by **ZaZZo** » 2007-05-22 19:44

You confuse me you fat zombie

Salad_Shooter · Post by **Salad_Shooter** » 2007-05-22 20:58

I think eggman nailed it. I guess I got spoiled by FH's previous 2 month release cycles. I think it kept people from abandoning the mod because they were excited to see what would be in the next release. DC and EOD just made their appearances and seem to be sinking already. I found only 1 server the other day, DC is dwindling also. PRMM may have more players than the other mods, but that doesn't say much considering how many play the other mods. I really enjoyed USI, but it wasn't long after that I couldn't find full servers to play on. Such a waste of hardwork and talent. I love PRMM and played on devfile basrah 24/7 atleast every other day, and now I go in there and find they are closing the server soon. Tactical Gamer was the other server I play on and half the time the server thinks I'm banned, sometimes it lets me in. All the other servers ping over 200. Not much fun at that point. I'm just trying to find ways to grow the userbase for PRMM. I understand the sharing that goes on between Black Sand Studio members, hopefully LOTS more of it happens. I just think USI and PRMM would be a good match to completely combine and not just share. The maps and the play are not far off. Each would bring something to the table to make an even better mod.

Post by **bosco_** » 2007-05-22 21:00

It's not PRMM anymore.
It's PR (Project Reality)

I disagree with you, any combination with another existing mod would mean less realism, and that is a big no-no.