Sabotage - is it the way the game's supposed to be played?

Aestabjoo · Post by **Aestabjoo** » 2007-05-26 02:40

G'day all,

First of all, big ups to the Dev's, Mod's and helpers who keep this mod alive - ya'll rock.

Now, to what I came here for: we've been having a bit of a discussion over where I usually play on the Australian PR server about whether sabotage should be allowed. Sabotage in the way we are discussing it is:

Placing mines or C4 on vehicles at an enemies main base, while it is not the HQ order to be at that main base.

IE, sneak in while people aren't expecting you to be there and lay traps on vehicles so that as soon as they get in them, they're killed. Alternatively, blowing up the vehicles with C4 straight away so that the enemy has to wait for 10 minutes until the vehicle respawns. This includes Humvee's, tanks, APC's, helicopters, everything.

I was wondering if one of the Dev's could comment on this and tell us whether it should be done or not. I won't give my view on the matter until after the Dev's have commented.

Are the maps designed to be balanced with this in mind? If not, should it be allowed to happen? If it can't be disallowed through the BF2 engine, should the admin on these servers enforce a "dead zone" around the enemies main base that no enemies are allowed to enter unless the HQ order is set to that flag?

Deadmonkiefart · Post by **Deadmonkiefart** » 2007-05-26 02:45

I'm not a Dev but I see nothing wrong with sabotaging enemy vehicles. It is realistic and both teams can do it. It is not much of a problem anyway, because it is so difficult to do.

ArmedDrunk&Angry · Post by **ArmedDrunk&Angry** » 2007-05-26 02:53

Actually it isn't hard to do.
1 engineer and 1 rifleman can destroy a base in a matter of minutes.
And if they have a patient SL in the hills somewhere you will never get a vehicle out of your main.
While I support the idea in the name of realism, given the time limitations of spawning now I would think a " no main base rape " rule would benefit all and only hinder the unskilled who want to play sneak-thief instead of joining the assault.

DarkTalon · Post by **DarkTalon** » 2007-05-26 03:51

most bases have a kill zone around the HQ so without armor it would be pretty hard to do unless you're REALLY fast.

Post by **Rhino** » 2007-05-26 03:54

Sabotage is encoraged in PR and the Devs wished more people would do it

Hx.Clavdivs · Post by **Hx.Clavdivs** » 2007-05-26 04:05

Got me thinking. If it's a 64 size map, just think about it. 2 smucks runs straight across the map, without getting killed, sneak behind enemy lines and "rig" deathtraps when anybody might spawn in at any time.

They get me mighty pissed, but I do take my hat off to them. And when I die, I actually hear them laugh at me, it gives me fuel to spawn again and hunt them down. I love it.

JohnnyPissoff · Post by **JohnnyPissoff** » 2007-05-26 05:22

Damn your breaking my heart here. This reminds me of BF42/DC playing days where sneaking was the style and rigging was an art. Bah now we have the mighty anti-stealth commander.

One thing I kinda wish PR still had; the several C-4 charges with detonator the Spec-ops guy had. It's fun setting charges on a busy roadway. Yea I know the engineer has one now, but it just don't seem the same. Besides the Spec-op guy needs a better gig.

Hx.Clavdivs · Post by **Hx.Clavdivs** » 2007-05-26 05:47

As one dude said: SpecOps should only get a stick of gum and attitude.

Wasteland · Post by **Wasteland** » 2007-05-26 05:58

Placing mines under vehicles is an extremely cheap tactic.

Same with spawn killing.

But going into the base to blow vehicles or assets and then getting out straight away afterward, only engaging enemies that threaten you along the way, is perfectly acceptable IMO.

Hx.Clavdivs · Post by **Hx.Clavdivs** » 2007-05-26 06:24

In my world, anybody who gets threw enemy lines as the maps are now and survives and then is a plague at main base ... good luck, cause there is always one stupid smuck who takes that as a challenge. AKA me. Currently.

COME ON! Don't you won't to hunt them down and humiliate them with a knife death?

JohnnyPissoff · Post by **JohnnyPissoff** » 2007-05-26 06:25

Well this is actually more fun and normal when your playing capture the flag, but anyway who said anything about getting out quick? One tricky fellow can hold just about the entire enemy from advancing forward.

You see it's a game mindset that the guys under siege will almost always refuse to move out of base and continue the game until they get that one guy even if they can spawn elsewhere. So it can realistically simulate a true saboteur's tactic.

Hx.Clavdivs · Post by **Hx.Clavdivs** » 2007-05-26 06:31

One magic round on my part as SL, I survived 1 apc, 4 tanks, and 7 - yes - you read right SEVEN rounds of artillery. I died 2 times in about 43 minutes. And the last 2 minutes I died 2 more times.

I never did get that officers kit. Cause well ... I survived! And I had some incredible medics getting me back to life.

It's all about how much you want to survive or how fast you want to get to a-b. Bitchy, yes ... but you might want to go around that wanted asset and check dangers before you try to go tankwhoring, apc...., vodnik/jeep ... Just because you are at main base - does not mean you are safe. Learn it. Love it. Fight it.

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-05-26 08:27

I havent checked yet, but does the 0.6 Basrah still have the dome of death around the airport?

It would be really nice, if we could jihad the IFVs or Apaches at least once in a round

...altough roadblocks have been set trickier now...

Hx.Clavdivs · Post by **Hx.Clavdivs** » 2007-05-26 08:29

As long as those a10's never take off, I am just fine. Not that they hit anything other than their own, but I do get annoyed when I hear them in the air.

Huh? They are not in the 0.6 version? Still miffes me in 0.whatever-we-are-in- now

jackal22 · Post by **jackal22** » 2007-05-26 09:26

heh heh

i remember quai river, i sneaked into the us main spawn and single handedly took out 4 apcs 6 yes 6 little birds and 1 bh.

2x mines under the apcs mean when someone drives them they blow.

1x c4 under black hawk

assult sniping the people out of the little bird on warm up since it has no protection

using those 3 methods and being re-armed off the us vehicles meant i was there for a hell of a long time destryoing and pissing them off so much they had the new black hawk flying around the base trying to spot me and 2 squads running all over the hills around the base,

unfortuanntly all good things come to an end and i was eventually found.

Post by **bosco_** » 2007-05-26 10:39

This kind of sabotage got me and others some trouble on TB....
Don't Try It At Home kids

para_hjs · Post by **para_hjs** » 2007-05-26 10:46

Sabotage = irritates the enemy..makes the OPFOR advance to a halt. The OPFOR commander may want to direct squads to eliminate the unit = takes time.

Gyberg · Post by **Gyberg** » 2007-05-26 10:55

JP*wasteland.soldier wrote:Placing mines under vehicles is an extremely cheap tactic.

Why? I always check any vehicle for mines and c4 before getting in, if you dont do that I guess you are stupid and deserve to get killed...
I agree on the spawnraping though.... I dont like it either....

Hx.Clavdivs · Post by **Hx.Clavdivs** » 2007-05-26 11:15

jackal22 wrote:heh heh

i remember quai river, i sneaked into the us main spawn and single handedly took out 4 apcs 6 yes 6 little birds and 1 bh.

2x mines under the apcs mean when someone drives them they blow.

1x c4 under black hawk

assult sniping the people out of the little bird on warm up since it has no protection

using those 3 methods and being re-armed off the us vehicles meant i was there for a hell of a long time destryoing and pissing them off so much they had the new black hawk flying around the base trying to spot me and 2 squads running all over the hills around the base,

unfortuanntly all good things come to an end and i was eventually found.

That was YOU!!! Oh, and ... yeah, I did find you you little ...