Sabotage - is it the way the game's supposed to be played?

[Epim3theus]

Sabotage as in sabotaging communication and bridge yes.
NOT by laying mines under parked tanks and such in army bases. Thats why things that shoot stuff are invented. Helicopters and stuff.

[Wasteland]

Yeah, it just seems like a cheap way to piss someone off and get a kill to me. If you want to really piss someone off, kill them like a man. At least put C4 on the vehicle and wait for someone to hop in before blowing it. Mines under the vehicle is just too cheap IMO.

Maybe there are people checking tanks and whatnot before getting in, I don't know. It must happen on European servers only though, as I've never seen it being done.

I never do it as I've only been killed this way once. It would be a massive waste of time for me to check every time based on the one time I've died this way. I guess the people on the servers I play on find it cheap as well.

[Dr. Litch]

What I'd like is a permanent Guard/Spotter located in the main base that would detect the location of any enemies who are not prone or crouching. The guard wouldn't be an actual player, but just an invisible UAV. Maybe a message would pop up (EnEmY SpOtTeD1!!) and a little red dot. This would still keep the possibility of sabotage but the process will be slower and any false movements/rushes will lead to detection.


Obviously not a urgent priority. Maybe just one of those neat little things that make it into .9 or something

[Epim3theus]

On the soviet muslim thing, they never became a active formation, in yougoslavia there was a muslim unit also. That one just loved to pillage christian villages in yougoslavia and was broken up.
There was a 50 man strong British SS-unit also who never did fight.
Most of Soviet SS came from former Baltic States who were occupied in 1940 by the soviets, who were also the enemy. The Germans were their liberators.
Also a lot of sympathy for the germans in the beginning at least in Oekrain, where a famin wich was induced by Stalin had taken place. Stalin has killed miljons of Russians in camps and so forth.

[Hellequin]

I've actually had this happen before, it was on a half populated server in the day and every vehicle was mined at our base. Was really annoying and brought me flashbacks of my vanilla days.

[dandred]

On full servers I think this a good tactic.

The server the OP comes from is a small Australian server where a few people go to the main enemy base and kill ALL vehicles and helies.

In a full server this is cool, but the OP thread is about a small server with maybe 9 people on each team, and one squad destroying everything that can move from the others team's base.


This is not in the spirit of PR, or is it?

[BlackwaterEddie]

Asset Denial has always been a legit tactic, but with vehicles respawning this really doesnt do anything more than allow score whores to prosper.

[{GD}Ghost]

Gentlemen, this game represents war. THERE IS NO WHINING IN WAR! If you get blown up everytime you jump into a vehicle you have 2 options. Go hunt the ******* down that keeps getting into your base and set up a defensive perimeter or STOP JUMPING IN VEHICLES. Its not rocket science. ITS WAR!

Seriously though. You cannot whine about enemy troops sabotaging your vehicles in your main base. If the enemy can consistantly get into your main base and destroy your vehicles and assets, you have already lost that battle. Assets and vehicles need to be protected just as fiercely as your flags. The problem is that most people don't protect their flags either. They just run around like chickens with their heads cut off shooting at anything that moves in an attempt to get "the most killz".

What I see as a problem is that people are playing PR with a vBF2 attitude. When you play this you have to approach it as if you are in a war (because this is how the DEVs are attempting to design this mod). You leave your main base open to attack, it will be attacked. That is just a fact of war. Why are people complaining about this. Sabotage is a tactic used in real battle. This is a game that does its best to simulate real battle. I don't see what the problem is other than the fact that maybe you should spend some time defending your asses...I mean assets. A good defense is just as important (if not more so) than a good offense. Unfortunately, PR doesn't come with a manual that outlines proper offensive/defensive tactics or the proper use of assets/equiptment. Proper tactics and use of equiptment can make or break a battle much more so that sheer volume of ordinance(sp).

Let me give you a hint: John Rambo and that one guy from Commando never really lived, but if they did, they wouldn't have lived for long.

One thing that bugs me is hearing people complain about a completely valid tactic. However, they're often the first one's you see running around prone-dive shooting people even though they know its a known issue.

Enough me ranting. I'm gonna go blow up some enemy assets. That is one of the purposes of the SpecOps kit is made for, right?

[BlackwaterEddie]

I thought the purpose of the spec ops kit was to make people think they are elite and provide them with a fully automatic rifle with no recoil to reinforce this thought of theirs

[{GD}Ghost]

Damn! You mean I've been using the SpecOps kit all wrong the whole time?!

BUGGER!


Hehe...

Our team actually has developed a written S.O.P. document for those of us who wish to play as SpecOperators during a battle. Playing as a SpecOps squad is not determined by the kit you carry, but by HOW you play. A good SpecOps squad is equipt to handle just about any situation so that means you can't have a team full of guys with SpecOps kits. You'll need someone who can carry ammo, a squad leader, a designated marksman and it might not hurt to have an engineer and of course a couple people with specops kits. The key is to stay out of site and do not engage targets unless you absolutely have to. The objective is to harrass and disrupt enemy operations from behind the lines. You will not be effective at that if you're shooting at everything that moves and giving your squads position away.

....ok back to the main subject. Sabatoge = good.....unless your letting it happen to you. Not defending your assets base = bad....unless you're on the opposite team.

[gazzthompson]

well said ghost !!! its a good and legit tactic , if u saw a tank IRL , would u say "na we cant bobytrap it , some guy would get realy anoyed !!" u would blow it up !!! we all do it. its denying the enermy of assets which is a good thing.

[[T]waylay00]

Gentlemen, this game represents war. THERE IS NO WHINING IN WAR! If you get blown up everytime you jump into a vehicle you have 2 options. Go hunt the ******* down that keeps getting into your base and set up a defensive perimeter or STOP JUMPING IN VEHICLES. Its not rocket science. ITS WAR!

Seriously though. You cannot whine about enemy troops sabotaging your vehicles in your main base. If the enemy can consistantly get into your main base and destroy your vehicles and assets, you have already lost that battle. Assets and vehicles need to be protected just as fiercely as your flags. The problem is that most people don't protect their flags either. They just run around like chickens with their heads cut off shooting at anything that moves in an attempt to get "the most killz".

What I see as a problem is that people are playing PR with a vBF2 attitude. When you play this you have to approach it as if you are in a war (because this is how the DEVs are attempting to design this mod). You leave your main base open to attack, it will be attacked. That is just a fact of war. Why are people complaining about this. Sabotage is a tactic used in real battle. This is a game that does its best to simulate real battle. I don't see what the problem is other than the fact that maybe you should spend some time defending your asses...I mean assets. A good defense is just as important (if not more so) than a good offense. Unfortunately, PR doesn't come with a manual that outlines proper offensive/defensive tactics or the proper use of assets/equiptment. Proper tactics and use of equiptment can make or break a battle much more so that sheer volume of ordinance(sp).

Let me give you a hint: John Rambo and that one guy from Commando never really lived, but if they did, they wouldn't have lived for long.

One thing that bugs me is hearing people complain about a completely valid tactic. However, they're often the first one's you see running around prone-dive shooting people even though they know its a known issue.

Enough me ranting. I'm gonna go blow up some enemy assets. That is one of the purposes of the SpecOps kit is made for, right?

+1

Too many people are playing it with a vanilla BF attitude.

Sabotaging is a completely valid tactic.

[l|Bubba|l]

well said ghost !!! its a good and legit tactic , if u saw a tank IRL , would u say "na we cant bobytrap it , some guy would get realy anoyed !!" u would blow it up !!! we all do it. its denying the enermy of assets which is a good thing.

IRL you wouldn't have a completely unguarded base with military vehicles.

1: Who want's that boring job to stay the whole round at the mainbase and wait for maybe only 1 saboteur?

2: Who want's that more people doing nothing instead of fighting?

We have only 32 people on each side.

[system]

Sounds like stealthy fun to me.

[Dunehunter]

Bubba, there are usually atleast some people around, waiting for the vehicle they want or something like that. The main base isn't usually completely deserted, atleast, not as far as I can tell.

[Snake_doctor]

Snake, I don't know how you could possibly say that the Soviets didn't bear the brunt of WWII.

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/ww2stats.htm

WWII Death Estimates:

USA: 300,000 (this is low however, I'm pretty sure there were 500,000 military deaths)

Brittain: 450,000

Germany: 5 million

Japan: 3.2 million

China: 10.5 million

USSR: 20 MILLION! (10 million military deaths)

I realize deaths doesn't equal war contribution, but the point is that they're on a whole different scale.[/QUOT
i never sed that thay did not bear the brunt wot i sed was thay never won the war evry did just coz thay *** out wores off that shows how badly inorgnazid army it was we only reson thay won that battel was bye freezing gemans well noted fact thay was big hellp to the win yes but so was uk and us and evry uther contry

[Epim3theus]

Gentlemen, this game represents war. THERE IS NO WHINING IN WAR! If you get blown up everytime you jump into a vehicle you have 2 options. Go hunt the ******* down that keeps getting into your base and set up a defensive perimeter or STOP JUMPING IN VEHICLES. Its not rocket science. ITS WAR!

Seriously though. You cannot whine about enemy troops sabotaging your vehicles in your main base. If the enemy can consistantly get into your main base and destroy your vehicles and assets, you have already lost that battle. Assets and vehicles need to be protected just as fiercely as your flags. The problem is that most people don't protect their flags either. They just run around like chickens with their heads cut off shooting at anything that moves in an attempt to get "the most killz".

What I see as a problem is that people are playing PR with a vBF2 attitude. When you play this you have to approach it as if you are in a war (because this is how the DEVs are attempting to design this mod). You leave your main base open to attack, it will be attacked. That is just a fact of war. Why are people complaining about this. Sabotage is a tactic used in real battle. This is a game that does its best to simulate real battle. I don't see what the problem is other than the fact that maybe you should spend some time defending your asses...I mean assets. A good defense is just as important (if not more so) than a good offense. Unfortunately, PR doesn't come with a manual that outlines proper offensive/defensive tactics or the proper use of assets/equiptment. Proper tactics and use of equiptment can make or break a battle much more so that sheer volume of ordinance(sp).

Let me give you a hint: John Rambo and that one guy from Commando never really lived, but if they did, they wouldn't have lived for long.

One thing that bugs me is hearing people complain about a completely valid tactic. However, they're often the first one's you see running around prone-dive shooting people even though they know its a known issue.

Enough me ranting. I'm gonna go blow up some enemy assets. That is one of the purposes of the SpecOps kit is made for, right?

What you call sabotage is the vanilla attitude. Its probably hardcoded in your brains or something. Ask yourself why the 2 slams of the spec ops cant destroy a tank in PR. Sand or sugar for that matter won t destroy the engine as suggested before by the way.
So if our team captured 3 flags, that team should still defend their base where some spec ops is spawning from a hidden spawnpoint going to a flag he isn t supposed to be?
And your hint is totally contradicting yourself. IRL they indeed woulnd t have lived for long thats the point. In real combat, where you are refering to, they would have been killed. No one risk his live rigging a tank with explosives if you can shoot at it with a rocket.
I expect you are defending also when you are at the enemy base.

[l|Bubba|l]

Bubba, there are usually atleast some people around, waiting for the vehicle they want or something like that. The main base isn't usually completely deserted, atleast, not as far as I can tell.

It depends on the Map but at the most time the mainbase is completly abandoned.
And a soldier that spawn at the mainbase will not notice a saboteur who try to be quiet.

[{GD}Ghost]

IRL you wouldn't have a completely unguarded base with military vehicles.

1: Who want's that boring job to stay the whole round at the mainbase and wait for maybe only 1 saboteur?

2: Who want's that more people doing nothing instead of fighting?

We have only 32 people on each side.

1: Who want's that boring job to stay the whole round at the mainbase and wait for maybe only 1 saboteur?
that would be the team complainig about having their assets blown up. A tank/apc or a supply truck two will supply great support for your troops on the battlefield.....if used properly. One sabateur denying you access to these assets can do more damage than just destroying that asset. On top of that, some of the most interesting game play I've had is defending a CP or base from at attacking force. A smart commander or SL is going to realize that boring or not, protecting assets is a necesity...or suffer the consequences without whining.

2: Who want's that more people doing nothing instead of fighting?

If squads were more organized, worked together and learned some decent tactics, it wouldn't take all 32 players to control a map. This goes back to the most effective tactic. Each squad needs to learn how to assault a CP, take it and then stick around to defend it. This won't be a boring job because you always know that at some point, your opposition WILL come sniffing around to try to take it back. The best tactic is to always have a squad or two defending the control point behind the one the rest of your team is assaulting....but that is another subject for another time.

[l|Bubba|l]

1: Who want's that boring job to stay the whole round at the mainbase and wait for maybe only 1 saboteur?
that would be the team complainig about having their assets blown up. A tank/apc or a supply truck two will supply great support for your troops on the battlefield.....if used properly. One sabateur denying you access to these assets can do more damage than just destroying that asset. On top of that, some of the most interesting game play I've had is defending a CP or base from at attacking force. A smart commander or SL is going to realize that boring or not, protecting assets is a necesity...or suffer the consequences without whining.

2: Who want's that more people doing nothing instead of fighting?

If squads were more organized, worked together and learned some decent tactics, it wouldn't take all 32 players to control a map. This goes back to the most effective tactic. Each squad needs to learn how to assault a CP, take it and then stick around to defend it. This won't be a boring job because you always know that at some point, your opposition WILL come sniffing around to try to take it back. The best tactic is to always have a squad or two defending the control point behind the one the rest of your team is assaulting....but that is another subject for another time.

And you would wait 10 or more minutes at the mainbase where nothing happens to wait for a saboteur who possibly never comes?
That has nothing to with the denfence of a flag that can be taken by the enemy.