Snipers

Enforcer1975 · Post by **Enforcer1975** » 2005-10-29 17:37

Can we give snipers a little disadvatage when they start aiming with their scope?
In RL when you aim with a scope you need a certain time to aline your eye with the scope. In another game this was achieved in fading in the sight. ( from black to what you see when scoping ).
This should be part of the Reality project, it's impossible to aim and shoot in less than 100ms. 1 sec should do fine ( the game i was talking above is DoD and if i remember right it was also in Vietcong )

Post by **NikovK** » 2005-10-29 22:42

I also feel that snipers need some restrictions on their weapon. Being something of a outdoorsman and marksman myself (That's "Hillbilly" to you flatlanders), I know that accurate shooting requires controlled breathing, and controlled breathing is extremely difficult after sprinting a hundred yards, dolphin-diving to prone and putting the scope to your eye. I think that to represent the need to have your breathing under control, snipers should not be able to use their scope unless their stamina bar is full. This will also encourage snipers to use cover and stealth to cross a dangerous area (say a clearing or ridge crest) rather than to sprint full-out; being able to immediately return fire is desirable indeed!

Another possible hinderance would be the scope wobble found in many games. Unless firing from prone, holding a weapon like the M95 rock-steady seems inhuman. I think that scope wobble should be put into the mod for all sniper weapons, scaled from very difficult shooting at standing to very little or no wobble for prone, as the bipod would be set up. I recognize that scopes do not float around aimlessly in real life, and so make the suggestion that the wobble be mostly vertical with slight pauses at maximum inhale and exhale.

Artnez · Post by **Artnez** » 2005-10-30 01:03

NikovK wrote:I think that to represent the need to have your breathing under control, snipers should not be able to use their scope unless their stamina bar is full.

You, sir, are sharp

Do as the man says!

YoJimbO · Post by **YoJimbO** » 2005-10-30 01:49

I think the scope should wobble around slightly - and that how much it wobbles should depend on how high the stamina bar is;

25% or lower stamina bar should give a LOT of wobbling, as the sniper will have just sprinted, jumped or swam etc, and will need to regain his breath before being able to concentrate on a shot.

Obviously then wobblage (hehe) depends on the Stamina Bar, so as the bar rises, the scope should get progressively stiller, untill 100% where it should be more or less totally still...

Earthquake · Post by **Earthquake** » 2005-10-30 18:06

Hey guys. Just started using the mod and I probably will never play vanilla BF2 again! Great job to everyone involved!

One thing I'm finding mildly annoying is that there are always a ton of snipers on the map. Maybe one way to help balance (I know, I hate that word too) is to limit the number of snipers on one map, kinda like Americas Army does. Just a suggestion.

Post by **ArchEnemy** » 2005-10-30 18:51

We're currently trying to create a sniper limit, however due the engine restrictions we aren't sure if it's really possible. If it is we'll put it in PR

Enforcer1975 · Post by **Enforcer1975** » 2005-10-30 18:54

'[R-DEV wrote:ArchEnemy']We're currently trying to great a sniper limit, however due the engine restriction we aren't sure if it's really possible. If it is we'll put it in PR

Just replace the snipers with sharpshooters - in RL snipers would be 1km away from the target waiting for a shot of opportunity. Sharpshooters on the other hand are involved in the fighting. I don't think i have to explain what a squad level sniper is?

DWM|SgtSwabs · Post by **DWM|SgtSwabs** » 2005-10-30 20:22

I think they should have what they use in America's Army (the game not "america's army") where standing and scoped there is a lot of movement due to that fact that you standing up and trying to hold a 50.cal round firing weapon up to your shoulder. When crouched and scoped there is still movement but less because the weight is distributed more around the body. And when prone there is very minimal movement because you dont have to use much force to lift the weapon. BUT i think PRMM should have (America's Army style again) a "set up bipod" control so that when you prone you push a button and est voila! you have a bipod and NO movement. (WHEN I SAY MOVEMENT I MEAN UNSTABILITY OR "WOBBLE")

DWM|SgtSwabs · Post by **DWM|SgtSwabs** » 2005-10-30 20:24

Hahah! I just realised we are trying to turn this game into AA but with 64 players lol just kidding but we are kinda.

Artnez · Post by **Artnez** » 2005-10-30 20:49

DWM|SgtSwabs wrote:Hahah! I just realised we are trying to turn this game into AA but with 64 players lol just kidding but we are kinda.

Wouldn't mind it all. Just without the propoganda

DuckCommander · Post by **DuckCommander** » 2005-10-30 20:56

Enforcer1975 wrote:Just replace the snipers with sharpshooters - in RL snipers would be 1km away from the target waiting for a shot of opportunity. Sharpshooters on the other hand are involved in the fighting. I don't think i have to explain what a squad level sniper is?

Yea, Designated Marksman with the M21.

Post by **NikovK** » 2005-10-30 21:38

The reason why snipers are such a problem is because with the one-hit kill and lack of scope penalties, snipers are a seriously overpowered class in this mod. Once the sniper kit requires a high level of skill and tact to use (scope sway, stamina-bar restrictions on scope use, proliferation of smoke grenades, no hand grenades for snipers, reduced ammo load, or other "nerfs") there will be far less snipers running around. I frequently take out Draggies with my M16/203 on Karkand because they're newbies with no fire discipline, never relocate, and mask their sillohete (sp, stupid French words) poorly.

Mad Max · Post by **Mad Max** » 2005-10-30 22:44

If it's the Marines, as it is, give the Yanks the M14 DMR. They've gone back to the thing after noting the lacking qualities of the M16 and M4 series in big open spaces, and especially dusty environments. Army wise, SR-25 or M110 whatever the hell they're calling the thing now. I don't see the point for "snipers" as someone said before they're generally utilised by firing about 1km or more away.

Designated Marksman is the way to go, especially in the small maps of BF2. You can stick with the SVD mind, as that's the original roll it was made for, it just happaned to excell at great ranges too so it became a proper sniper rifle. I don't know too much about the Chinese rifle to comment so I wont, but from it's semi-auto mechanism it'd be be safe to assume it'll be fine as a DM rifle.

worst 3 · Post by **worst 3** » 2005-10-31 04:05

i snipe in the game all the time and it to easy and not fun. i played games where snipeing too skill and it was more fun. dont just make the sniper bad to make it fair.

the sniper should be able to shoot in any stance but sway if not prone should be realy realy bad

the shot should not stary left or right of corse hairs

there should be realistic bullet dorp and speed

range findeing binocs to gange where to aim (not supper importent if your good you would learn how high to aim and lead

there should be sway and breathing and should be baced on stamina too (and just holdeing you breth should not completaly get rid of sway)

sway should be proprtional to the zoom, and alternt zooming

shooting should be done form prone for long shots use i bipod and the bipod be able to be used on object when crouched.

also the gillie suit is usless now because at long range grass disapeapers and people see the snipers as the only blob of grass in and area.

i think that that these are the main things that people and my self need for the sniper class. any thing i forget that is imprtent

Post by **ArchEnemy** » 2005-10-31 06:09

In PR we'll ofcourse add the bullet drop to all weapons, this will make sniping more difficult. Also we're going to add a movement deviation, so that the only way to be fully accurate is to lay still, and not doing heavy direction changements with your rifle.

Artnez · Post by **Artnez** » 2005-10-31 12:40

The obvious solution here is to just limit the sniper class ingame. Done.

I would hate to see the sniper "nerfed". If you add sway for the sniper, the sway should be added for all classes.

After all, if you have a sniper kit is assumed that you are playing the role of a trained sniper on the battlefield. Surely, you 'nerfs' should match those of others.

In real life, the limitation is that snipers take time and money to train. They also use expensive gear. Thus they are not high in number.

So, limit them in number and you have a realistic fix

I play sniper religiously in vanilla BF2, so I'm not just saying this. Yes, it would suck if someone took my beloved sniper class.. but oh well, such is life. All the classes are great to play with anyhow.

YoJimbO · Post by **YoJimbO** » 2005-10-31 15:53

Using binoculars to determine the range of the target, and to determine which line to use on the scope in order to compensate for bullet droppage for that range would be a very interesting addition to sniping in my opinion.

DWM|SgtSwabs · Post by **DWM|SgtSwabs** » 2005-10-31 16:09

People who dont relocate or watch thier silohette are really stupid, i love it when i see a row of snipers at the top of a hill they are like ducks at a shooting gallery! Also *tip* i realise that the ghuile suit id not enough for the enemy to think you are a bush so i alway snipe from behind a bush and look "through" the cover just like you should in real life. A great little spot is a browny coloured bush behind the MEC airfield in Oman i have never EVER been found when snping from that position and i mean NEVER.

DWM|SgtSwabs · Post by **DWM|SgtSwabs** » 2005-10-31 16:19

worst 3 wrote:(and just holdeing you breth should not completaly get rid of sway)

Well i do alot of photography and it is really quite similiar to sniping NOW before you say "no its not you fucking moron" just hear me out.
A photographer is told to never hold their breath when taking a shot because it tenses your bodily muscles and causes "jittering". We are always told to breathe out just as we take the shot because then we are relaxing and any movement changes to a gentle and slow "sway" therefore making the picture easier to take. Now i dont see why these basic principles would not be similiar in sniping?

also another similarity is that in both sniping and photography you are told to "squeeze" the trigger/shutter realese.

But anyway to get back to the point holding your breath should not be implemented in the game because its unrealistic (unless im wrong and these principles dont apply to sniping in any way)

Enforcer1975 · Post by **Enforcer1975** » 2005-10-31 18:29

DWM|SgtSwabs wrote:People who dont relocate or watch thier silohette are really stupid, i love it when i see a row of snipers at the top of a hill they are like ducks at a shooting gallery! Also *tip* i realise that the ghuile suit id not enough for the enemy to think you are a bush so i alway snipe from behind a bush and look "through" the cover just like you should in real life. A great little spot is a browny coloured bush behind the MEC airfield in Oman i have never EVER been found when snping from that position and i mean NEVER.

Now we will find you

Snipers

Snipers

Agreed on Principle