Grenade Launcher must be fixed

[{GD}Snake13]

something needs to be done about the grenade launcher, this is way more critical then the UAV that was deemed too unrealistic to be included until it is redone.

Simply put any sort of close combat map devolves into 75% of the players trading grenade launcher shots from 5 ft away, its simply unplayable. Any sort of squad tactics are impossible cause some moron just runs around the corner and instantly kills you and/or half your squad. I'm pretty much done playing PRMM until the next release because of the grenade launchers

[ECale3]

i've only been killed by a grenade launcher once, although i will say i was pretty pissed since he shot me from all of three feet while running around a corner.

[Paladin-X]

He should've died himself. The splash radius is very large. I will look into properly implementing arming delay.

[Artnez]

I'm pretty much done playing PRMM until the next release because of the grenade launchers

Oh, the drama.

It might be a much more valid option to simply remove the grenade launcher. As far as I can see, the only possible ways to limit the use of the GL is:

a) Give it a minimum distance to charge (Paladin said this caused the GL round to go through objects)

b) Limit the ammo count of the GL to either 1 or 2 rounds.

c) Remove the GL altogether.

d) Make the GL part of a kit that is part of a limited class. This all depends on how moddable BF2 is. If you can limit kits (so you can have as many assault troops as you want with the standard kit, but only 2 assault troops with the GL kit) then that would work -- but I have a feeling that's not possible.

B and D are probably the most logical solutions... but maybe I'm not thinking it through completely.

Either way, it must be fixed. I wouldn't be disappointed if the GL was removed period. It doesn't really add anything to the game and it's not one of those things that's used so widely with conventional military forces during an engagement.

[Eddie Baker]

Either way, it must be fixed. I wouldn't be disappointed if the GL was removed period. It doesn't really add anything to the game and it's not one of those things that's used so widely with conventional military forces during an engagement.

The underslung grenade launchers will be limited by randomization, selection or pickup kits. Considering that there there is now an underslung grenade launcher in every four man infantry fire team in US and UK forces and that it can be used for signaling, illumination and less-lethal applications, it is something widely used by conventional military forces during an engagement.

[Artnez]

Eddie Baker']The underslung grenade launchers will be limited by randomization, selection or pickup kits. Considering that there there is now an underslung grenade launcher in every four man infantry fire team in US and UK forces and that it can be used for signaling, illumination and less-lethal applications, it is something widely used by conventional military forces during an engagement.

You're right.. I completely forgot about that. Each Marine fireteam does have a man with a grenade launcher handy.

The classic pickup kit is a great idea that I missed. Would definitely add to things, especially if the kit is only located at the main base.

[Rg]

After playing for about 4-5 hours tonight...........I say take it out altogether. I'm not about to stop playing this mod because of that (This mod finally makes BF2 playable!), but it really does hurt the game. If your not sick of it now.....you will be soon.
It is way too easy to guesstimate and kill one or more guys. It takes no skill at all. Too many people know this and are exploiting it. It's sad because you really miss out on good firefights.

You should just take it out completely and beef up the class by maybe giving it normal frags, as well as a pistol, ect...

[IRONxMortlock]

The only problem I have with it is when it is used like a shotgun at close range. If the grenade didn't arm until it had travelled a certain distance (as they do IRL) then I think it definately has a place in the game. At range, it actually takes quite a lot of practice to be acccurate with it and I think this change would eleminate the "noobish" elements of the tube.

[NikovK]

The other probleming being the lack of workable sights for the launcher. I'm always torn between accurate, zoomed fire, where I don't know what the gradient is, to unzoomed fire that amounts to 10m a tick. Iron sights, please.

[PhiR]

Oh, the drama.

b) Limit the ammo count of the GL to either 1 or 2 rounds.

d) Make the GL part of a kit that is part of a limited class. This all depends on how moddable BF2 is. If you can limit kits (so you can have as many assault troops as you want with the standard kit, but only 2 assault troops with the GL kit) then that would work -- but I have a feeling that's not possible.

B and D are probably the most logical solutions... but maybe I'm not thinking it through completely.

If the arming distance isn't implemented, people will still try to get it and use it as a shotgun, so you're back to square 1, and you will prolly have smacktards camping the kit spawn point (remember the barrett in DC ? . Random kits would be preferable.

I agree that limiting the access to this weapon would somehow mitigate the problem, but then you'd have to limit the access to all weapons to keep thinks balanced. For example, now that the AT class is more powerful against armor, it's hard to stay more than 15 secs at a flag in a tank because by then 1 or 2 enemies have spawned AT and you're toast. Even with infantry cover you're going to take hits...

[Enforcer1975]

I say, let the kits be.

Give us weapons without gadgets and off we go.

M4/16 Series for the USMC, AKs for the rest!!!

[Artnez]

For example, now that the AT class is more powerful against armor, it's hard to stay more than 15 secs at a flag in a tank because by then 1 or 2 enemies have spawned AT and you're toast. Even with infantry cover you're going to take hits...

That's taking a bit too far. If anti tank isn't readily available then fewer people will choose it. Nah.. a spawnable anti-tank kit will absolutely ruin gameplay... wierd how you dont see that.

I do agree, though, if you remove one "dominating" weapon.. another weapon will dominate. That's how all games are. The Grenade Launchers are WAAAAAY beyond that point though.

[PhiR]

That's taking a bit too far. If anti tank isn't readily available then fewer people will choose it. Nah.. a spawnable anti-tank kit will absolutely ruin gameplay... wierd how you dont see that.

I do agree, though, if you remove one "dominating" weapon.. another weapon will dominate. That's how all games are. The Grenade Launchers are WAAAAAY beyond that point though.

I was'nt suggesting that the AT kit should be spawnable, but merely that it was pointless to limit access to a specific weapon/kit. I really think that implementing an arming distance for the m203/gp30 would be the only other alternative to removing it altogether.

While speaking of AT, the idea of removing the shotgun/smg from the kit is just great. People will only spawn AT if they have to and that's how it should be. When you have effective but specialized classes, more teamwork will be involved.

About the spawnable kits, if you have played DC there were some maps where the anti-armor class had only RPGs, and stingers where spawnable. But this was bf42 when stingers would actually shoot down enemy planes instead of seeking friendly air assets

The general idea should be that no class is effective in all situations, and this is currently not true with the assault class. I think everybody agrees on this

[Enforcer1975]

I was'nt suggesting that the AT kit should be spawnable, but merely that it was pointless to limit access to a specific weapon/kit. I really think that implementing an arming distance for the m203/gp30 would be the only other alternative to removing it altogether.

While speaking of AT, the idea of removing the shotgun/smg from the kit is just great. People will only spawn AT if they have to and that's how it should be. When you have effective but specialized classes, more teamwork will be involved.

About the spawnable kits, if you have played DC there were some maps where the anti-armor class had only RPGs, and stingers where spawnable. But this was bf42 when stingers would actually shoot down enemy planes instead of seeking friendly air assets

The general idea should be that no class is effective in all situations, and this is currently not true with the assault class. I think everybody agrees on this

Not the kit concerns us, it's the weapon itself. Maybe the devs should just add an M16A3/4 without a nade launcher instead of the M16/M203 if they can't master the problem with the time fuse. In the time where BF2 plays this M16/M203 kind of combination isn't used anyway, looks to me like a couple of years in the future. We could add the XM-8 instead.

[{GD}Snake13]

well maybe quit was a little stong, because I do love the armor in PRMM .02, but playing as infantry mostly just raises my blood pressure.

IMHO tanks don't belong capping flags, I ussualy am sitting a good distance away with my optics on the flag, covering my teamates who are capping

[SiN|ScarFace]

I understand the frustration but here is my .02

The only things that will decrease the frustration w/o taking the tube out are.
1. Reduce the amount of ammo you can carry. Id say 1 laoded and one reload.
2. Make the nade arm after a certain distance. 15-20m

All that will do is prevent people from killing themselfs when they kill you or limit them to 2 nade kills before they have to find ammo.

I think the ammo should be reduced to 2 and then try and create a fuse if that is possible to force people to keep a distance if they want to use the tube.
This would also ease your mind when aproaching a corner where you believe the enemy to be, as you wouldnt have to worry about getting a nade fired point blank at you and force a gun fight.

I personally think 4 nades is too many, and I hate when I see people running with the tube selected and being used as thier primary weapon of choice. A clan mate of mine loves the tube and it bugs me that he uses it as primary and his k/d is usually 1:1 because of it, which is stupid and self defeating.

The tube has its applications, like clearing a flag before I get to it and taking out people when they foolishly bunch up. If you only had 2 nades it would force you to save them.

[Rha]

1st I'm new here. So hi
2nd
I was a Team leader In the Marines and carried the M16/203.
Only team leaders In the Marines carry this. Not the Sqd Leader or the Plt Sgt or any other. The sqds in this game are like fire teams plus 2 men.

So why not just make the 203 sqd leader only / The sqd leader has to use a 203. Give them only 2 nades and limit the arming distance.
Drop the number of Sqds to 5. All people should have to join a sqd. except Snipers/ Commander.

On a 32 player team there would only be 5 (203s). Have the number of Sqds limited by the number of people on the team. No one man sqds and **** or nine 1 or 2 man sqds for that matter. One of the unbalancing things about this game is that fact that there aren't forced classes or team work. There aren't going to have a sqd of all Medics that can be just as annoying as 203s. Kill a couple of guys and they keep reviving each other, over, and over again from behind a wall. I had that experience once. Five guys killed 3 the other two started reviving the others (not trying to kill me) so I naded them. Killed all 5 plus the other 3 over again. They were all medics.

So limit a 32 player team to 5 Sqds each with 6 and only allow one of each class ( you can switch classes as long as the sqd isn't full or the class isn't taken. In the sqd except for snipers. Snipers aren't really what I call team players and they aren't too good for caping bases.

One of the things I was disappointed in BF2 was that there is no basic rifleman. The back bone of the Corps. They don't have anything, but M16 plus they can double as the ammo man for the Saw gunners. Saw gunners aren't their own ammo men.

In reality there are no Rambos on the battlefield everyone is trying to keep each other alive and accomplish a goal together. Every time I play this game on any server a majority of people are off doing their own thing alone. If the other team just has a small group of people working together they will win. even if there is Ubber Rambo on my team with a million kills. ( i.e. tank or aircraft ) The team still won't win on average.

Oh an Enforcer1975 the XM-8 has a grenade luncher attachment.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... poster.jpg

[Rg]

1st I'm new here. So hi
2nd

So limit a 32 player team to 5 Sqds each with 6 and only allow one of each class ( you can switch classes as long as the sqd isn't full or the class isn't taken. In the sqd except for snipers.

In reality there are no Rambos on the battlefield everyone is trying to keep each other alive and accomplish a goal together. Every time I play this game on any server a majority of people are off doing their own thing alone. If the other team just has a small group of people working together they will win.

Hi and agreed!

[Enforcer1975]

1st I'm new here. So hi
2nd
I was a Team leader In the Marines and carried the M16/203.
Only team leaders In the Marines carry this. Not the Sqd Leader or the Plt Sgt or any other. The sqds in this game are like fire teams plus 2 men.

So why not just make the 203 sqd leader only / The sqd leader has to use a 203. Give them only 2 nades and limit the arming distance.
Drop the number of Sqds to 5. All people should have to join a sqd. except Snipers/ Commander.

On a 32 player team there would only be 5 (203s). Have the number of Sqds limited by the number of people on the team. No one man sqds and **** or nine 1 or 2 man sqds for that matter. One of the unbalancing things about this game is that fact that there aren't forced classes or team work. There aren't going to have a sqd of all Medics that can be just as annoying as 203s. Kill a couple of guys and they keep reviving each other, over, and over again from behind a wall. I had that experience once. Five guys killed 3 the other two started reviving the others (not trying to kill me) so I naded them. Killed all 5 plus the other 3 over again. They were all medics.

So limit a 32 player team to 5 Sqds each with 6 and only allow one of each class ( you can switch classes as long as the sqd isn't full or the class isn't taken. In the sqd except for snipers. Snipers aren't really what I call team players and they aren't too good for caping bases.

One of the things I was disappointed in BF2 was that there is no basic rifleman. The back bone of the Corps. They don't have anything, but M16 plus they can double as the ammo man for the Saw gunners. Saw gunners aren't their own ammo men.

In reality there are no Rambos on the battlefield everyone is trying to keep each other alive and accomplish a goal together. Every time I play this game on any server a majority of people are off doing their own thing alone. If the other team just has a small group of people working together they will win. even if there is Ubber Rambo on my team with a million kills. ( i.e. tank or aircraft ) The team still won't win on average.

Oh an Enforcer1975 the XM-8 has a grenade luncher attachment.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... poster.jpg

Limiting will just lead to let them die earlier. Imagine a noobtubeuser who can only use the tube. He gets his 2 shots and cries for ammo. But as most of the time the supportmen are to busy to give him ammo because they are looking for important killing points. So he decides to commit suicide via enemy ( run in front of one or at least tries to hit somebody with that weird thing called rifle attached to the grenade launcher. He succeeds in getting wasted and voilá, another 2 40mm rounds... You know how noobish a person is on the amount on encounters you or others have with this person. xxx[M203]xyz, xxx[M203]abc, abc[M203]xxx, xxx[M203]xyz, efg[M203]xxx, xxx[M203]xyz. This is endless

[Nevermore]

IRL your average Grenadier carries in excess of 24+ 40mm grenades, why would you want to limit it if your mod is going for 'realism', might just as well change it from a 'realism mod' to a 'gameplay mod' if thats the case.

You guys have to keep in mind that there is a learning curve/period of adjustment, when an update to a mod is released, everyone will whore the weapon du jour for a while, complain and whine, then settle back into what they know works well for them, its not sounding too unrealistic for someone to spam a group of people with a 40mm grenade, thats what they were designed for after all

Keep also in mind, the Devs here are very well attached to this community and listen much better than Devs from other mods in other communities, but you also have to choose your gripes carefully, these guys do this FOR FREE, in THIER OWN PRIVATE TIME, with NO REWARD other than praise from thier community, dont shit where you eat