Camping? Or Cutting off of Resources?

[[uBp]Irish]

I was playing Ejod today, and since i'm an armor guy (usually suck in infantry) i decided i'd go and try and knock out the armor/infantry/apc's from the mec. ( dont base opinions on this statement, keep reading).

I take my abrams and roll up the left side of the map (where the ridge is). I drive up the ridge, and get to some high ground. mind you, this is just after the tanks have spawned in. The Mec Forces have capped North Desert, Gardens, and are working on west city, while U.S. is working on east city.

My plan, is that i'll sit up on this ridge, hull down technique, and just drop any tank or apc i see coming down the road to my right. My view distance is just barely outside of the Mec Main Base, so i have a perfect line of sight, to see if there are any hostiles coming.

The map goes on, and i pretty much knock out every car, apc, and tank that rolls out of their main base. Usually i wait for a good shot when they get to about the north desert flag, which is straight across from me.

After about 10 mins of eliminating the threat to the U.S. troops that would otherwise be knocking them out, a guy on the other team starts yelling at me to stop spawn raping.

Keep in mind, my view distance did not see directly into their base, so i wasnt shooting them as soon as they got into the vehicle. I also saw them at the same time they could see me (i use 100% view distance, so might not be entirely true), AND i was attacking from the front, where they could see me Head On if they were looking, and not from behind.

Now, the question is, was i spawnraping? or was i supporting my allies as they captured the flags behind me unopposed so that we could win the map?

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

Wow
That is a close one.
I think in game terms it borders on baserape.
Now if you have destroyed 2 tanks and they keep coming and make no attempt to locate and destroy you then I would blame them.
If you had a RP, repair vehicle and infantry supporting you ( making damn near impossible to kill you ) that wuold be out and out base rape.
But if you are sitting in the same position and nobody tries to flank you, then it is on them for ignoring a persistant threat and not communicating with other teammates.
Did your team win the game and if so by how much ?


EDIT: The more I think about it the more I think you are right. It is simple warfighting and if they can't counter you it's their loss. To limit where you can fire like that makes it too much a diaper-baby playground.

[Teek]

outside they have room to maneuver, there is plenty of exits of the main, and space.
that guy was a nub

killing planes on the ground with another jet, well, its too easy to be fair. I mean, if youre so good, then let him have a chance to fight back.

on ejod, the commander or anyone with binos could see you, grab HAT and take your out without being killed. Fair.

[[uBp]Irish]

that's what i was thinking.

I'm far enough outside of their base, that i cant see them get into any vehicle. Yet, they keep coming straight down the road. If they realized i'm on the west, there's the whole east side that they could have gone by. However my position was good enough that i would have seen them drive by gardens.

My team won the round, dont remember by how much, but we won.

I sat up on the hill, as my team behind me capped the flag unopposed. They didnt have a commander. Made several attempts to RPG me. (NO H-AT's until after we had capped gardens and were on North Desert.)

Only other support i had near me, was after we capped gardens and a squad's APC rolled up to be a moble spawn point. He didnt do much else.

I told him after he was yelling at me, that if they want to take me out, they just need to get their game together and overwhelm me. I'm one guy, in a tank. I shouldnt be that hard to kill if you overwhelm me with atleast 1 H-AT, and a tank.

Continuation of overview.

After we capped north desert, i took my tank forward a bit to about 100-200ms southwest of the main base. This gave me optimal view to the west side of the base (where infantry sometimess comes around, as well into their tank spawn point). By this time, our infantry was flooding the flag. I was just sitting outside to shoot anything i moved. Usually i would be the one that would kill the car, or the apc that made a mad dash to get out, but our infantry was around anway. After we had the flag 3/4 down, i moved in a little closer to within cap range, now providing a shield to any mec brave enough to stick their head out.

I call this support. and what i was doing before in the map, is that any different from a spec ops recon unit from going and taking out the map made rally points on any other map? or destroying the command/artillery units?

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

Techniques for dealing with will have to be developed because with .6 view distance and double zoom on tanks it will be rampant.

[[uBp]Irish]

I played Kashan Desert on .605 and did the same exact thing as my guys were taking over Village. Sat on the ridge and as i saw two tanks come down from their ridge to the east, i started opening up on them.

The fact is. We both have the same view distance (or atleast i hope) so they have the same opportunity to take me out as i do them. It now is a matter of skill that is taken into account, and not who see's who first.

[Sun Tzu]

I did the same thing on EJOD Desert except I was MEC and was sitting in a revetment that faces the gas station. This gave me a great view of the gas station and all surrounding buildings I was no where near their main and I got called a spawn camper! My K/D ratio was in the range that I was being called a hacker. Hell a stealthy special forces guy could have snuck behind me and blown the **** out of me with a SLAM. It's a noob move to rush a tank or other valuable asset (i.e. APC or spawn car) into the field of fire. I salute you sir.

[eggman]

Not camping imo, tho certainly a spawn location design consideration to enable folks to spawn somewhere safe and get an HAT kit.

[Bob_Marley]

I think the term that best fits this kind of play is "back dooring", a term from DotA, which means going behind the main attack waves (ie the wave of creeps that are currently enguaged) and destroying the reinforcing waves or enemy towers. Its generally considered bad form, but definetly not spawn raping.

Now, PR is very different to DotA, and in our rather different generally accepted RO this would be OK to me. While you did present a significant threat to the enemy forces, and were no doubt an annoyance, I'd say its perfectly permissable as there is any number of ways to ruin your day.

[-=TB=-Tobakfromcuba]

i know there many guys excusing rape of uncap/spawnpoints by "hey thats reality"
i like to remind them that in reality there no "uncaps" nor AAS, nor any battles with 32 soldiers on each side.
500 tickets representing a force that would be there at one time. then, no main would be unguarded.
many of the guys using apc /tank / sniper to hold into enemy main just do it to get some kills they badly need to vanish their former failure.
when i review some battlerecorder files i often find some of them,
recently some got a ban.
@irish: i dont think its spawnrape. a tank is a heavy force, if a whole team cant spot a single 3x8 meter unit and get rid of it while its located in the main combat zones,having own tanks....you know there are these guys yelling "baserape" when its their last capable flag.

[[uBp]Irish]

i thank you all for the replys. I try and play this game as realisticly as possible (that's why i'm in the 22ndMEU, not a recruitment ad).

The thing is though, i was there the whole time, it just seemed like a lack of motivation from the team to take out the one thing (me) that was holding them back from winning. I looked at the game and saw it was pretty even, and looked for a hole in the enemy line to use for my team's advantage and exploited it to fullest effect.

@eggman: Maybe a need for a spawn change, but the fact of the matter is, once they realized what was happening, and that i hadnt moved, they started coming at me with RPG's and H-AT's together. The flaw is though, that my team was there along side of me at that point, taking them out as well.

I also have to say with regards to the spawn issue, i was out of view distance of them getting kits. If you look into mec base, there is that 2 story building, with the stairs on the outside that leads into the inner room. That's as far as i could see. If anything, i saw the tank coming out on the road, not the guy getting his kit and hoping in. They had the full advantage to get the H-AT kit, yet werent fully utilizing it to it's full potential. Also, there is the whole opposite side of the map that they could have went around, yet they chose to take the quickest route, even if it led to their death.

[HABO3]

you weren't on the TG server were you? i'm pretty sure they would kick you for doing this since you aren't fighting for the cappable flags behind you (which is a stupid rule imo). to me anything goes so long as it works but different servers got different rules.

[Hx.Clavdivs]

I say "good on you!"

If the ENTIRE mec army can't defeat you either with artillery, RPG's counter flanking, tankwhoring, AT-whoring etc etc you are one annoying piece of sh..., but you still got the job done. All by yourself. Hope you got a medal for it.

And now for my second reply: How the heck does one guy do this? There should be more folks in the squad helping him out.

[Patrick&Kyitha]

There is always a very thin line beween camping/baseraping/spawnkills and well organized lock out. What I personally mean by baseraping/spawnkilling is that group of players from opposite team sits inside your flag/base radious and kill players on spawning and steal all vehicle that are in the base. However if opposite team is outside the base/flag and cooridinates well aimed counterattacks on groups leaving the base that is pure skill and well executed tactics. Camping near oposite base is however different matter. What I usually mean by camping is a bloke or group of players sitting outside base/flag radious with SNIPER OR MARKSMAN kits. Having very long range of shooting they can kill players while there are spawining. That is wrong. Destroying other players vehicles behind enemy lines in opened attacks is justified. But if you set an amushes very near or inside enemy base/flag that is sick and wrong. What I tend to do now and than is to take my squad and set some good and organized ambushes outside enemy base/flag but on predicted path on which I think enemy troops can move towards front lines. I never ever take my squad or go myslelf in to enemy base/flag to make easy kills. I work hard for my points in game and kick all my teammates that go to do baserape/spawnkills and camping.

[arneboe]

i know this is a game.. but isn't this supposed to be a war "simulation" kinda thingy? best team wins, best tactics win etc.. what he did in the tank is not baseraping IMO! it's just the best use of US resources and a great offensive-defensive tactic, hosing down everyone and everything who dears show themselves.. it's just good strategy..

[JohnnyPissoff]

You should have placed a teammate with armor on the East as well. Then the enemy would have had to take you guys out. The way I see it every variation of play makes this game more interesting and less repetitive.

Some of these guys that boo-hoo when they get whipped make me laugh.

Some of the most exiting games I can remember playing BF42/DC was when the enemy had my team pinned at base with armor. Breaking out was a real challenge and once done gave us the motivation to move foreward. Besides that's less enemies threatening and attacking the CPs.

[[uBp]Irish]

yea i just thought it was pretty pitiful that they couldnt come at me. They saw me when i saw them. (unless there is a view distance bonus from being high up).

What i was simply trying to do, was that age old tactic, of almost sacrificing myself so my people behind could get the job done.

The thing is, i did the exact same thing the round before when iw as mec, only this time i came in 3/4 through the round, and did more of working with the infantry support. If we were trying to take gas station, i'd move up ahead behind a burm, and just drop anything that i saw move. Really helps out the team.

And Claud the thing was, the team really wasnt working together. They would cap flags together, but that was about it. Did all the tanks on sabot rounds, and apc's/cars on heats, and when we finally started to move into their main base, i used my last sabot rounds to destory their tanks, and then switched to my heats to use on the vehicles that made the mad dash out. Thank God that when we capped the mec base flag, i didnt have a need since either I or my team had taken the vehicles out.

thanks for the replys just wanted to make sure i wasnt doing something unholy

[Jay]

Irish']The first post.

I played a round on EJOD about a week ago where I did the EXACT same thing!

It was just me and a rifleman up on that same hill to the West, killing ALL their tanks and apcs just as they got to the north desert flag. The ironic thing is that I hadn't even intended to do that originally. I killed a guy and noticed that he was the enemy H-AT, so I took his kit!

And the weird thing is that no one came after me until about 20 mins of enemy vehicle killage. Obviously one squad cared enough about me to request artillery on me about 9 times, but I dodged it (somehow) each time.

Anyway, point is, I think its a legitimate strategy, and its the enemy's fault if they don't come after you. Although I always have found EJOD a bit of a badly designed map (sorry whoever made it!) when it comes to the last two flags of either side, especially the MEC, because there's no cover, so its pretty much just them waiting to get raped by the other team.

PS:

DotA

Ew.

[Ironcomatose]

No base raping there imo. I too have great memories of being pinned down in our last flag with armor and what not surrounding us and it makes it even more fun to have a well put together breakout. Ahhh good old airport(as the british of course).