The Jets have now been deemed Illogical and Not realistic...

mrfire8808 · Post by **mrfire8808** » 2005-11-08 21:29

I think they just leave it to us to duke it out. 0.0

GRB · Post by **GRB** » 2005-11-08 21:41

Possibly...Either that or the developers themselves cant make up thier minds..We might have started a HOT debate here..I think im going to spark up a POLL..

Its time to start votes on this one.

Tezzer05 · Post by **Tezzer05** » 2005-11-08 21:48

Zodiac wrote:Tezzer05, there are countless addons for Operation Flashpoint: Resistance (not too many for regular OFP nowadays). And by countless, I mean alot

please, everone from now can call me TERRY not tezzer cos thats a retarded name and also, what mod do you have for opf? one more thing... is there a mod to up date the graphics for the original ofp? cos they are really crappy.

Mad Max · Post by **Mad Max** » 2005-11-08 22:03

There are plenty of mods that make the game (OFP) more pretty, but most that do do it in the Hollywood explosions way... ie massive fireballs for frags even though the characteristic of HE going boom is mainly smoke and dust (WGL is AWESOME for that, super realistic effects, but it doesn't make the models and so on better as it's an MP mod meant for nice frame ratres).

Anyway, look here http://ofp.gamezone.cz/index.php?newlang=eng. The best place for OFP related news/addons and the like.

DAWG · Post by **DAWG** » 2005-11-08 22:43

mrfire8808 wrote:Well.. like I said, I guarntee more people want jets REMOVED then people want them to stay..

Qualify that statement and I MIGHT be willing to take you seriously?

mrfire8808 wrote:How many mods do you know that currently have jets removed? None, it would be a one of a kind move, unique, and probably very popular.

Ever considered the reason no mod has removed the jet altogether is because the MAJORITY of players DON'T want them removed?

mrfire8808 wrote:<Insert "Jets havent been removed from any mod because they are t3h t0t4l h4x 1337 pwnz0rz!" here>

Learn to use the equipment at your disposal and you will find jets have a hard time being the best on the battlefield.

GRB wrote:Well that was my point from the beginning. The problem is, the PR developers are trying to keep the people that want the jets and the people that dont ADDED together as opposed to just tossing that side of the community out...

So you suggest we just get rid of anyone that doesn't agree with your points. EXCELLENT argument, you definately sold me, let's get rid of jets. I think not.Be sensible!

GRB wrote:Thus, i suggested the replacement of the fighters with something that would fit a little better.

NO! YOU DIDN'T! Your post title is -

" The Jets have now been deemed Illogical and Not realistic... "

GRB wrote:But i agree. I think they should definatly be removed. It would make more room for more helicopters or something. It very well might be possible that it could have a positive affect on PR too. Who knows, maybe it'll attract more people...It being the ONLY mod that has removed jets might get some more attention.

You either fly choppers in real life or you want to and I would lay odds that's what you do most in BF2. Would explain why those jets piss you off so much. As for removing them from the mod being a good thing that would bring in followers and players. I ask, are you being serious? My God man, if that were the case, don't you think someone else might have considered that? Which is probably why it hasn't been done, because it's a nonsense idea.

Both of you, GRB and mrfire8808, have claimed that the majority of the community want jets gone, yet I have seen no proof of this anywhere, on any other forum ( MOD or otherwise ). Sure the odd crazy pops up now and again bitching the point, usually because they can't deal with the jets in game and come up with the splendid idea of " Hey if they are taken away they can't hurt me anymore! "

Like I said, I AGREE with you on the problems and failings of jets. I TOTALLY DISAGREE with you both concerning how to fix that problem, your solution is narrow minded and unconstructive.

But mostly, to all those who are talking nonsense, asking to have jets removed or any other part of the game removed totally. I say the game is called BATTLEFIELD 2, it is a game designed to allow the player to have it his way. If you can't shoot tank, if you can't tank fly and if you can't fly, I suggets you find another game more to your suiting.

THIS IS NOT - Squad Combat 101 IT IS BATTLEFIELD 2. I agree with many of your points concerning certain pieces of kit, however they need tweaked, or replaced with a more realistic equivalent that works. Suggesting removal of major parts of the game shows a lack of imagination. It's a game for fuck sake, it will never truly simulate war or the tools used to make war, it will however give hours of fun and enjoyment, if you get past the basic fact that certain games are designed to give differing experiences. If squad combat is what you wanted then why did you by a game like BF2.

On a lighter note, sign up to one of the tournaments 21CW, BF2 Combat or Total-War, playing on a server with 32 guys who are all working towards the same goal, supporting each other and the objective will give you a much better idea of what BF2 could and should be. Don't knock the game ( severely flawed as it is ) because of the actions of muppets in public servers.

Seriously consider that some aspects can not and should not be hard coded. One of the things that originaly brought me and many others to the BATTLEFIELD franchise, was the ability to attack and defend the way you saw fit. To go where and do what was needed, without constraints placed by levels. BATTLEFIELD 2 is a flawed game - YES, however all of the games have had flaws yet we love them and came back for more, let the DEVS do their jobs and who knows, maybe, just maybe; it'll all work out in the end.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2005-11-08 22:51

i have to admid dawg, you came out swinging and you hit an awful lot with that one.

it isnt a 'problem' that the PR devs are keeping people with opposing ideas together. the solution is much simpler. some maps will have them, some wont. if you are opposed to jets being in: fine, if you want them to stay: fine. only thing that needs to be done is what even BF2 itself did, include them in some maps, exclude them in others. and if you like a map but not the fact that jets are in them. then there's always the option of having progressive maps (i.e. 'map_day1, map_day2'

simple.

mrfire8808 · Post by **mrfire8808** » 2005-11-08 23:33

I cant right click on this computer, so I wont be able to make a super awesome quote dealy.

First off DAWG, to qualify my first quoted statement would be very simple.
Urban maps are 10 times more popular than maps with jets. Qualified.

My second quoted statement: No mods have jets removed because people like yourself come in here and start armeggdon to get their way. Not to mention not that many mods are even out.

The third of my quoted material is a figure of speech depicting that someone would use the second quoted statement to say exactly what you did in reply to the second quote.

If you read what GRB posted in his body text, you would see that he did indeed state to replace fighers with something more logical and fitting to the mod. And he nor I are suggesting to get rid of everyone who doesnt agree with us. But what are you saying, if jets arent in the game people wont play the mod at all? Wow, this is NOT a flight sim, they shouldnt need jets to play the game, it is a FIRST, PERSON, SHOOTER. Im waiting for a mod to actually support that idea. I do enjoy, and I am very good at flying jets. I just do not think they belong in the game the way they are put into it. And like I said, jets have been pushed to the limits in BF2, you wont be able to modify them and make them "better" while still keeping in balance with the other aspects of the game.

And yes, the game is called Battlefield 2, but this mod is called Project Reality. There is, a difference, and just so you know mod means modification. And I suggest you look that word up at http://www.dictionary.com .

And no, this is not Squad Combat 101, its Project Reality.

For any future posts that attempt to flame me or my OPINION (please look that word up too), I suggest you come up with some better arguements rather than; "you're wrong, you suck at the game, it would take from gameplay (its a mod, it will take and add from gameplay)".

And most of all, stop assuming that your outlook on things is "common sense" or "correct" or "sensible"...

I'm not going to continue to argue to get my way, Ive stated my opinion, and defended it against pointless and disregarding rants. Ill play the mod with or without jets, just like I still play BF2 after EA ruined the ranking system by lowering all rank requirements due to people constantly complaining.

Once again, I suggest people come up with cleaver arguements, and not name call, or say Im complaining, because I am.

Beckwith · Post by **Beckwith** » 2005-11-09 00:19

My second quoted statement: No mods have jets removed because people like yourself come in here and start armeggdon to get their way. Not to mention not that many mods are even out.

thats what you and GRB are doing, and as far as infantry maps there popular on ranked servers because there easy to rack up tons of kills on, and were not the ones raising hell and demand things be changed to suite our interest that would be you guys

ive no objection to having maps (maybe many of them) that dont include jets, there are plenty of maps that shouldnt have jets and thats fine, however to suggest there removal is a bit of a slap int he face to a significant majority of people who enjoy using them, im quite certain there will be PR maps that dont contain jets, and you may choose to only play on those but to suggest the mod entirely exclude something simply because YOU prefer not to use them is ludacris,

if you dont want to be bothered by jets you can play Americas Army or Counter Strike

the reason battlefield is Great is because it does include all areas of combat not just infantry or armor, that being said the current jets are nowhere near perfect and need significant work

GRB · Post by **GRB** » 2005-11-09 00:29

Im sick of the personal attacks. We were simply suggesting things and you two are doing nothing but starting an arguement.

I never said any of the **** you guys spewed out...

GO BACK AND READ MY ORIGINAL POST, I SUGGESTED 3 DIFFERENT THINGS. THEN THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE ENTIRE THREAD I'VE BEEN COMMENTING HOW EVERYONES SUGGESTIONS ARE AWESOME...

FUNNY PART IS, I HAVNT SEEN A SINGLE SUGGESTION FROM EITHER OF YOU...THE ONLY THING YOU TWO HAVE DID IS COMPLAIN AND WHINE. NO CONTRIBUTION TO THE ISSUE AT HAND WHAT SO EVER...

BOTH OF YOU MISS ALL THE SMALL THINGS THAT I HAVE SAID IN ALL MY POSTS THAT TOTALLY DEFUSE ANYTHING THAT YOU HAVE SAID THAT I SAID.

From a post of mine on page 6-

"Pretty much anything you do MIGHT have a negative affect on PR. Wether it be, replacing the fighters with ground attack planes, removing them completely, segregating maps for planes only, or just tweaking the ones already in the game to be more realistic...Regaurdless all possible options might have a negative affect. This is why i hate the jets in the BF series...They never fit right because of this obligation..."

Missed that shit didnt you??????

"if you dont want to be bothered by jets you can play Americas Army or Counter Strike"

Oh that really helps the PR community grow...

I dont think i like you anymore Beck. You're supposed to be representing PR and this is how you treat the new community????? If i was the Lead Tester, your *** would be booted to the dirt by now..

"but to suggest the mod entirely exclude something simply because YOU prefer not to use them is ludacris, "

I DO use them....See, you're making an assumption that is really confusing you. I DO USE THE JETS. But when i do, i notice how incorrect they really are. My solution would be to remove them. Why? Well, simply because no matter what you do TO the jets themselves, IN MY OPINION and IN FACT, they will never fit right DUE TO THE GAME ENGINE LIMITATIONS....Does that mean that's what has to be done? NO, not only that, but why would you act like its going to be done or that i am DEMANDING it be done???

I seriously do NOT understand the hostility you guys are throwing towards this subject AND me....Its truly pathetic.

Resjah · Post by **Resjah** » 2005-11-09 00:39

I dont deny the fact that people hat jets, the only thing i hate is when people just get finished getting whooped by a jet and think that they should be removed altogether because it is a "hassle" for them and they believe it ruins gameplay.

I have even read a topic in here about removing armor, i like BF2 and PR because it is not trying to be Counter strike(which is a good game) but i play different games for different things, if i wanted an all infantry game i would play CS but i have BF2 because i love the fact that players have all types of vehicles and weapons at their disposal in which they can fight how they like.

I believe the fact that BF2 combines ground, air, and some sea is marvelous and makes this a fantastic game, i also beleive that when people decided to take out a portion of that it raducally changes the game, im not going to say that if planes were taken out no one would play the game but it wouldnt neccasarily be BF2 or PR anymore it would be landBf2 and not PR cuz in real life,planes exist.

IRL Aircraft DO controlthe battlefield wether you want to admit it out not. planes can completly wipe out entire forces which is what they did with the Iraq war, do you think WW2 could of been won faster without aircraft? no im sure you dont. Ever since the dawn of the century airpower has always been at the front line of innovation and has always dominated the Battlefield. Taking away aircraft just isnt right.

I understand that Aircraft in BF2 arent realistic but BF2 isnt meant to be realistic anyway,PR is going to change that by making things as real as they can possibly do, but their are some areas where they cant do that.They cant have PR be a full tank sim, or copter sim, neither a flight sim, but they can find a nice balance. Some of the suggestions i have made a bit earlier in this post give some ideas on how to balance this.

GRB's ideas on replacing the existing planes with slower attack planes is a good idea but not that much different as if the planes are any slower they will be like WW1 planes, so basically planes can already destroy a tank with its guns, if PR adds the A-10 they will be basically having the same F-15 characteristics with a different model and differnt weapons but the A-10 is still very fast so it still doesnt justify anything.

You cant have everything you want to happen and somethings can only be slightly changed with PR, Aircraft should stay in but with a couple of tweaks just read my earlier post. Helicopters feel awkward in this game as well, a Cobra or Havock shouldnt be endangering its self by getting right up on a tanks *** to kill it, it does it from kilometers away with deadly accuracy and devastation,safe from AA. I believe that would "ruin gameplay" and soon you will have people saying "get rid of the attack choppers".

Not everything can be perfect, all im saying is to not be so irrational and suggest the complete removal of aircraft or any vehicle for that matter, you can not accuratly say that many people want the planes to be taken out as there isnt that many people that actually care, and people that post on forums only represent a small portion of the community that have this game or play this mod. People act like they are doomed to play on 1 map with a sucky pilot on their team and a uber pilot on the enemys. there will be different maps for different things, and if you completly hate airplanes, just shut your mouth,dont fly them, and dont play on levels that have them. simple as that.

GRB · Post by **GRB** » 2005-11-09 00:45

FlyBoy wrote:I dont deny the fact that people hat jets, the only thing i hate is when people just get finished getting whooped by a jet and think that they should be removed altogether because it is a "hassle" for them and they believe it ruins gameplay.

I have even read a topic in here about removing armor, i like BF2 and PR because it is not trying to be Counter strike(which is a good game) but i play different games for different things, if i wanted an all infantry game i would play CS but i have BF2 because i love the fact that players have all types of vehicles and weapons at their disposal in which they can fight how they like.

I believe the fact that BF2 combines ground, air, and some sea is marvelous and makes this a fantastic game, i also beleive that when people decided to take out a portion of that it raducally changes the game, im not going to say that if planes were taken out no one would play the game but it wouldnt neccasarily be BF2 or PR anymore it would be landBf2 and not PR cuz in real life,planes exist.

IRL Aircraft DO controlthe battlefield wether you want to admit it out not. planes can completly wipe out entire forces which is what they did with the Iraq war, do you think WW2 could of been won faster without aircraft? no im sure you dont. Ever since the dawn of the century airpower has always been at the front line of innovation and has always dominated the Battlefield. Taking away aircraft just isnt right.

I understand that Aircraft in BF2 arent realistic but BF2 isnt meant to be realistic anyway,PR is going to change that by making things as real as they can possibly do, but their are some areas where they cant do that.They cant have PR be a full tank sim, or copter sim, neither a flight sim, but they can find a nice balance. Some of the suggestions i have made a bit earlier in this post give some ideas on how to balance this.

GRB's ideas on replacing the existing planes with slower attack planes is a good idea but not that much different as if the planes are any slower they will be like WW1 planes, so basically planes can already destroy a tank with its guns, if PR adds the A-10 they will be basically having the same F-15 characteristics with a different model and differnt weapons but the A-10 is still very fast so it still doesnt justify anything.

You cant have everything you want to happen and somethings can only be slightly changed with PR, Aircraft should stay in but with a couple of tweaks just read my earlier post. Helicopters feel awkward in this game as well, a Cobra or Havock shouldnt be endangering its self by getting right up on a tanks *** to kill it, it does it from kilometers away with deadly accuracy and devastation,safe from AA. I believe that would "ruin gameplay" and soon you will have people saying "get rid of the attack choppers".

Not everything can be perfect, all im saying is to not be so irrational and suggest the complete removal of aircraft or any vehicle for that matter, you can not accuratly say that many people want the planes to be taken out as there isnt that many people that actually care, and people that post on forums only represent a small portion of the community that have this game or play this mod. People act like they are doomed to play on 1 map with a sucky pilot on their team and a uber pilot on the enemys. there will be different maps for different things, and if you completly hate airplanes, just shut your mouth,dont fly them, and dont play on levels that have them. simple as that.

Preliminary assumptions are beginning to piss me right the hell off....

Im beginning to think NONE of you have read my original post...READ PEOPLE, GO BACK AND READ!!!

THE REASONS AS TO WHY I FEEL THE JETS DONT BELONG IN BF2 HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH MY EXPERIENCES WITH THEM ON THE BATTLEFIELD. ITS ALL ABOUT THE REALISTIC LOGIC. WHEN PUT FORTH, THE LOGIC SUGGESTS THAT THE FIGHTER JETS ARE NOT CORRECT. MY PERSONAL OPINION IS IF THATS THE CASE THEY SHOULD BE REMOVED BECAUSE, GIVEN THE LIMITATIONS WE CANNOT FIX THEM TO BE REALISTIC, AT ALL. WETHER OR NOT ITS DONE OR NOT I COULD GIVE TWO SHITS, BUT IF YOU CONTINUE TO CRITICIZE ME AND MY OPINION AS OPPOSED TO EXPOSING YOUR DAMN OPINION, WE WILL GET NO WHERE..............................

I could sit here and argue with you guys all day, but im not gonna, because this isnt supposed to be an arguement. Why dont you guys just post YOUR opinions on what should be done with the jets INSTEAD OF CRITICIZE EVERYONE ELSES OPINIONS!??!?

By the way, flyboy, anyones opinion can be considered irrational. It just depends on the point of view. You have to remember that not everyone thinks like you.

You guys have ruined my thread. You filled it with criticism and hate....Exactly the opposite of what should have been done to get ANY progress on what the community wants out of this...

Resjah · Post by **Resjah** » 2005-11-09 00:58

GRB wrote:Preliminary assumptions are beginning to piss me right the hell off....

Im beginning to think NONE of you have read my original post...READ PEOPLE, GO BACK AND READ!!!

THE REASONS AS TO WHY I FEEL THE JETS DONT BELONG IN BF2 HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH MY EXPERIENCES WITH THEM ON THE BATTLEFIELD. ITS ALL ABOUT THE REALISTIC LOGIC. WHEN PUT FORTH, THE LOGIC SUGGESTS THAT THE FIGHTER JETS ARE NOT CORRECT. MY PERSONAL OPINION IS IF THATS THE CASE THEY SHOULD BE REMOVED BECAUSE, GIVEN THE LIMITATIONS WE CANNOT FIX THEM TO BE REALISTIC, AT ALL. WETHER OR NOT ITS DONE OR NOT I COULD GIVE TWO SHITS, BUT IF YOU CONTINUE TO CRITICIZE ME AND MY OPINION AS OPPOSED TO EXPOSING YOUR DAMN OPINION, WE WILL GET NO WHERE..............................

I could sit here and argue with you guys all day, but im not gonna, because this isnt supposed to be an arguement. Why dont you guys just post YOUR opinions on what should be done with the jets INSTEAD OF CRITICIZE EVERYONE ELSES OPINIONS!??!?

By the way, flyboy, anyones opinion can be considered irrational. It just depends on the point of view. You have to remember that not everyone thinks like you.

You guys have ruined my thread. You filled it with criticism and hate....Exactly the opposite of what should have been done to get ANY progress on what the community wants out of this...

sigh....

perhaps if you read my post with a cool head you would understand, i HAVE read your inital post and did i say anything negative about it? no, in fact i gave my own suggestions in my first post in this topic, in my second post i am merely letting everyone know that not everything will be how they want it, it might not be how i wish for it to be and it might not be how you wish for it to be i also said we could hopefully find a happy medium.

I have not tried to attack you in anyway but if you feel that way....then go ahead.... im merly trying to give my input,my opinion, just as you have gave yours.

GRB · Post by **GRB** » 2005-11-09 01:02

FlyBoy wrote:sigh....

perhaps if you read my post with a cool head you would understand, i HAVE read your inital post and did i say anything negative about it? no, in fact i gave my own suggestions in my first post in this topic, in my second post i am merely letting everyone know that not everything will be how they want it, it might not be how i wish for it to be and it might not be how you wish for it to be i also said we could hopefully find a happy medium.

I have not tried to attack you in anyway but if you feel that way....then go ahead.... im merly trying to give my input,my opinion, just as you have gave yours.

I apologize...Youre right. I do need to cool down. Its just that Beckwith and DAWG have been making this very difficult. They havnt suggested anything, yet they continue to come in here and criticize everyone elses opinion. Saying that suggesting them being removed is morally wrong and everything..

Telling someone that thier opinion is wrong, THAT is wrong..

mrfire8808 · Post by **mrfire8808** » 2005-11-09 01:15

<3 all

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2005-11-09 01:24

haha fire is right, isnt anyone willing to just make variations of maps where jets are and arent included? if you dont like them dont use them... its thta easy

Heydude235 · Post by **Heydude235** » 2005-11-09 01:31

Yes the only reasion i want to keep jets. Is becuase i love flying them in dog fights they are so fun. Thats why i would like some kind of only bombing plane in. I love bombing people.

GRB · Post by **GRB** » 2005-11-09 01:58

So lets all head to the poll i created and get something done.

This thread is useless.