Bullets, brains, and bodies.

Tychandrus · Post by **Tychandrus** » 2005-11-09 02:24

I've been thinking about this a bit, and I didn't know where to put it - whether on the military part of the forum - since it concerns true military situations and knowledge concerning being wounded by a gunshot - or here in the general discussion since it does concern the modification. At anyrate, I decided to put it here since the General Discussion forum gets more attention.

Concerning being shot;

I remember sometime ago getting into a discussion of shooting other human beings with my friend Alex and, although I cannot really remember what led up to this statement by him, but he said that you're much likely less to be killed by being shot in the head than, say, being shot in your center mass (generally around the torso area). In retrospect, I suspect he's correct because the skull is a hard thing to crack, and if you get shot in the face (I'm talking about most hand held fire-arms which aren't shotguns or shotgun-like) the bullet might be more likely to rebound off the brainpan and break other things in your head like your jaws and various other organs than hit the brain.

The torso and various other parts of the body by themselves tend to be less enclosed, such as everything under the ribcage.

Anyway, my point is, what would be most likely to kill someone; a head shot or a body shot, in the following weapon categories:

Standard infantry issued rifles (M-16, AK-101, AK-47, and the like...)

Standard Pistols (Like those seen in the game)

I ask this because I tend to play as the Anti-Tank a lot in the game (when I refer to the game, I generally refer to the mod because this is all I play now. Vanilla Bf2 seems so pointless now). I was wondering if wounds and damage were portrayed realistically enough for everyone to answer my following question:

Since I'm armed with a pistol as the AT class, where would it be more effective to shoot my opponent in order to kill him; the head, or the body?

GRB · Post by **GRB** » 2005-11-09 02:55

A headshot and a shot in the torso by any gun in this game is going to be fatal. You have to think, most of the guns in this game fire rounds of ammunition that can pierce body armor. If they can pierce body armor, they WILL go through your head. lol.

Distance has more to do with it than anything. But even so, if a bullet hits you in the head at the farthest distances allowed in the game, it is still close enough for that bullet to be carrying enough speed for it to pierce right through your skull.

If you get shot in your torso or your head, chances are you're going to die regaurdless. The only difference is, if you get shot in your head, you die almost instantly, if you get shot in your torso, you will die slowly...

worst 3 · Post by **worst 3** » 2005-11-09 03:03

yea a bulet will go right threw your head. if you got a hellmet on and graze it of it not close to a direct hit it might be defflected. i heard a lot of stories where they were shot in the helmet, and the helmet was shot off or the guy was knocked out. the shot were from usualy an weird angle and not right on. a shot to the lower body will kill you slower becuse the organs there are not need like the heart or brain. you would need to bleed out and digestion is not need all the time. you would die if you were not treated and even if you were you might not make it.

Post by **Happy** » 2005-11-09 03:14

A .22 caliber pistol will go through ur head but not out the other side just bounce around alot on the inside and mash ur brains.

worst 3 · Post by **worst 3** » 2005-11-09 05:01

how do u know this, in such detail ??? have u tryed

Zodiac · Post by **Zodiac** » 2005-11-09 05:29

A shot to the face is going to incapacitate you. A shot to the head is going to kill you. Either way, you're out of the battle

CobraPhantom · Post by **CobraPhantom** » 2005-11-09 05:57

=BONG=Happy wrote:A .22 caliber pistol will go through ur head but not out the other side just bounce around alot on the inside and mash ur brains.

.22 rounds have proven both fatal and just a flesh wound. Really has to do with luck. Reading several articles about the .22 cal( not to mention firing them for a good 5 years), even hollow point, have proven same results. Sometimes a guy can die from one single round....sometimes he can take 3 to the head and still survive.

Post by **NikovK** » 2005-11-09 06:12

My cousin interviewed a Luftwaffe pilot who's head was grazed by a .50 caliber. "I gnow I haff brains becauze I haff felt tzem". The important bits to remember about being shot in the head are;

1. There's about a half-inch halo to a profile of your head where a bullet will possibly graze off, or barely into, the skull. Messy wound but not fatal in itself.
2. From the side, everything from the jaw forward to include the nose is not a fatal wound... by itself.
3. The face is a lot of cavities and sinuses, so we're talking total penetration for an actual bullet. Not fatal IF it does not pass through the brain/spinal area.
4. Relatively light and lower-speed shrapnel from a grenade, however, could be stopped by all those bony parts.
5. The real zone of lethality from a side profile is the dome of the head; that big round area where the brain actually is along with the spine. Getting shot, unarmored, in this area is going to fsck you up. Maybe not kill you, but you won't remember your piano lessons.
6. This area is covered by a helmet that provides enough protection to justify infantrymen wearing pots on their heads 24/7. Question not the infantryman! That "zone of grazing" gets slightly bigger in steel models and a round can be outright stopped in modern examples. I've seen a picture of an Aussie with two smashed bullet slugs right above the visor lip of his helmet. The caption said "Kalashnikov" fire. 47 or 74? Short barrel? Range? We don't know, reporters ask stupid questions. But that picture exists and is proof your helmet is a good thing.
7. People have survived all sorts of massive head trauma that in all honestly SHOULD have killed them. Like arrows through both ends of the dome, or bad suicide attempts. Most were fscked up to begin with., but were definately moreso after.
What would we draw from my ten minutes of researchless speculation? Getting shot in "the head" IS less lethal than getting shot in "center mass", because the center of your chest contains some major bleeding, breathing and beating parts. Your head contains useless bony stuff, skin and oh, the brain. They have surgeries where they cut whole chunks out of the human brain. They do not cut chunks out of your heart.

-Edit-

Wait, you want to know how to kill people in AT? Shoot their feet with the launcher and rush with the knife while they are shellshocked. Try to dolphin-dive for a little more reach in the stab.

GRB · Post by **GRB** » 2005-11-09 06:28

Wow...Are we prepared to get that technical about our headshots?

Regaurdless of where youre shot on the head, any hit to the head is going to render you useless on the battlefield.

To answer the question: "where would it be more effective to shoot my opponent in order to kill him; the head, or the body?"

The head of course! The damage in the game is not precise, but it is quite accurate. Head area takes away more hitpoints than the torso. In most cases almost all soldiers wear armor on thier torso. Limbs are also an option...

Basically, just shoot the hell out of him! Hey, but if your sneakin up behind him, a knife kill is best. Or get real close and execute him with your handgun...(one shot to the head and he's dead)

Heydude235 · Post by **Heydude235** » 2005-11-09 06:32

Ya i notice with my uber sniper skillz when i shoot them in the head its a 1 hit kill!

Tychandrus · Post by **Tychandrus** » 2005-11-09 13:35

NikovK wrote:Wait, you want to know how to kill people in AT? Shoot their feet with the launcher and rush with the knife while they are shellshocked. Try to dolphin-dive for a little more reach in the stab.

Ah heh, no thanks. I don't like wasting AT rounds which could be used to take out a more important target - an armoured vehicle. And as I said earlier, I want my answer in regards to the auspices of the mod itself. Remember - I don't play BF2 vanilla anymore. Or... Oh wait I may have only said that in an other thread.

As for the rest of you, wow, thanks for all this info. Quite educational really. I appreciate it!

Enforcer1975 · Post by **Enforcer1975** » 2005-11-09 15:54

If you don't hit anything vital you can even survive when getting half your face torn off when beeing hit in the head. Remember some pictures of WW1 victims ( no jaw etc. )

GRB...but you must admit that in the army you learn to shoot the torso because it's the biggest target. Headshots are mostly lucky hits or a shot of opportunity.

Oh yeah, if someones interested, this popped up when using google.

http://www.solids.caltech.edu/~mota/caltech.html

None bloody, just some scientific stuff about simulating ballistic impact on the human skull.

Beckwith · Post by **Beckwith** » 2005-11-09 15:57

i remeber in Psych class they talked about aguy who had a rod go thru his head from unber the chin straight up behind the eyes and thru the frontal lobe of the brain, he survived no damage to anything vital, he was doing demolition and using the rod to ramm some TNT down a hole hed drilled and the rod scraped a rock and sparked setting off the tnt

creepiest thing ever

Post by **NikovK** » 2005-11-09 17:30

I was, of course, joshing.

Tezzer05 · Post by **Tezzer05** » 2005-11-10 20:25

=BONG=Happy wrote:A .22 caliber pistol will go through ur head but not out the other side just bounce around alot on the inside and mash ur brains.

that statement REALLY suites your signature or whatever it is he he.

GRB · Post by **GRB** » 2005-11-10 20:29

Enforcer1975 wrote:If you don't hit anything vital you can even survive when getting half your face torn off when beeing hit in the head. Remember some pictures of WW1 victims ( no jaw etc. )

GRB...but you must admit that in the army you learn to shoot the torso because it's the biggest target. Headshots are mostly lucky hits or a shot of opportunity.

Oh of course! Many different things come into play with being shot and survival. Not all of them can be simulated on BF2 though...Bleeding can! Thank God.

But yes, hittin the heart, which is located in the center/left portion of the torso, is a very deadly shot. At distances above 50yards+ usually you aim at the torso..

Enforcer1975 · Post by **Enforcer1975** » 2005-11-10 21:04

GRB wrote:Oh of course! Many different things come into play with being shot and survival. Not all of them can be simulated on BF2 though...Bleeding can! Thank God.

But yes, hittin the heart, which is located in the center/left portion of the torso, is a very deadly shot. At distances above 50yards+ usually you aim at the torso..

Did you read what i wrote or did you just read some words??

What did i just write?? VITAL

You can also die from a shot in the arm when it hits the artery.

What can be realised in the game is depending on the engine. They can program a game to differ parts of the body but i think it would take a lot of resources.

GRB · Post by **GRB** » 2005-11-11 06:58

Enforcer1975 wrote:Did you read what i wrote or did you just read some words??

What did i just write?? VITAL

You can also die from a shot in the arm when it hits the artery.

What can be realised in the game is depending on the engine. They can program a game to differ parts of the body but i think it would take a lot of resources.

Of course i did...I always read everything before i post..Did i say something wrong? Im confused..

soldier_girl · Post by **soldier_girl** » 2005-11-11 12:09

A guns job is to kill people. how you do it is up to you. as long as it does its job it doesnt matter what you one you use. they are all as good as eachother. what it does depends on the user. a gun doesnt care who holds it. when you kill people dont feel any regret. you done the right thing.

DAWG · Post by **DAWG** » 2005-11-11 12:25

Beckwith wrote:i remeber in Psych class they talked about aguy who had a rod go thru his head from unber the chin straight up behind the eyes and thru the frontal lobe of the brain, he survived no damage to anything vital, he was doing demolition and using the rod to ramm some TNT down a hole hed drilled and the rod scraped a rock and sparked setting off the tnt

creepiest thing ever

I don't know about creepy, but that has to be one of the unluckiest things I have heard in a long time. Although the fact that the guy survived at all, especially without any lasting effect is quite amazing. Doesn't sound like the he was the sharpest tool in the box to begin with, poking TNT with what must have been a metal rod, you'd think someone who has been doing the job would understand the consequences of creating sparks around explosives. Perhaps next time someone should suggest a plastic or wooden stick for the job.