The "Crewman" class weapon question

ZaZZo · Post by **ZaZZo** » 2007-06-15 17:58

Never challenge Bob in a weapons discussion

Bobert08 · Post by **Bobert08** » 2007-06-15 18:26

Why do we need scoped grenadier kits?

Right now we need to hope a scoped M16 is coming along nicely, since now that we have a scoped MEC, PLA, and GB assault rifles.

As far as crewman specific weapons, that's small stuff, as most of the time crewman live and die in their vehicles.

Post by **Bob_Marley** » 2007-06-15 18:33

Bobert08 wrote:Why do we need scoped grenadier kits?

Right now we need to hope a scoped M16 is coming along nicely, since now that we have a scoped MEC, PLA, and GB assault rifles.

As far as crewman specific weapons, that's small stuff, as most of the time crewman live and die in their vehicles.

The scoped M16 is due for v0.7.

Scoped Grenadier Kits are needed because the L85A2 cannot mount iron sights when it has the UGL attached. It has to have a SUSAT on it. Due to this, all the factions will be getting scoped grenadier kits. Also, the PLA and MEC need new grenadier kits anyway, and the USMC will too, when the M16A4 rolls around.

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-06-15 18:59

i hate that "equal clase" for each facction

Rambo Hunter · Post by **Rambo Hunter** » 2007-06-15 19:23

me too

"Ok everyone, we move out to invade China at 0800!"

"Waiittt! i just recieved news they don't have 4x scops, the attack is postponed until they arrive!"

Bobert08 · Post by **Bobert08** » 2007-06-15 19:28

Bob_Marley wrote:The scoped M16 is due for v0.7.

Scoped Grenadier Kits are needed because the L85A2 cannot mount iron sights when it has the UGL attached. It has to have a SUSAT on it. Due to this, all the factions will be getting scoped grenadier kits. Also, the PLA and MEC need new grenadier kits anyway, and the USMC will too, when the M16A4 rolls around.

I'm not disputing the fact that the L85 can't use the UGL with iron sites, but I don't understand why not. I don't know the gun, but I just do not see why it can't be fitted with iron sites when something is fitted underneath the barrel.

Post by **Bob_Marley** » 2007-06-15 19:35

Bobert08 wrote:I'm not disputing the fact that the L85 can't use the UGL with iron sites, but I don't understand why not. I don't know the gun, but I just do not see why it can't be fitted with iron sites when something is fitted underneath the barrel.

Because the UGL heat shield/barrel shroud replaces the normal L85 foregrip, meaning there is nowhere to mount the front part of the L85 iron sights.

Bobert08 · Post by **Bobert08** » 2007-06-15 19:45

Looks feasible enough.

Hehe, I get what you're saying though, although I don't think it's such a big deal. Yeah, the current one is unrealistic, but I don't know if that calls for a huge overhaul of the class.

[uBp]Irish · Post by **[uBp]Irish** » 2007-06-15 19:53

that sure is a sexy weapon.

and i agree with the "equal weapons" argument, but still.. back to topic about crewman kit, and wrt Marley, yea.. i guess that's true, but for the meantime, i think noone would argue with brit's/americans getting mp5's or m4's....or maybe they would..

Post by **Bob_Marley** » 2007-06-15 20:00

Bobert08 wrote: Looks feasible enough.

Hehe, I get what you're saying though, although I don't think it's such a big deal. Yeah, the current one is unrealistic, but I don't know if that calls for a huge overhaul of the class.

BF2: EF =/= Reality.

Bobert08 · Post by **Bobert08** » 2007-06-15 20:17

Bob_Marley wrote:BF2: EF =/= Reality.

Project Reality =/= Reality (Note: I'm not saying the developers have done a poor job or anything, I'm pointing out that there are just certain limitations that nobody can get around in a video game)

There are a lot of things about the weapons in PR that maybe aren't all that realistic, so why is the the exception? Come on man, EA pulled it off believably, heck, there's nothing stopping the British Military from welding iron sites on top of the UGL

I'm just saying, this really doesn't deserve more attention than rifleman scopes, or even crewman carbines. The current gun works fine.

No matter what you do these weapons will not be real, they are polygons. Based on real weapons they all are, but even the best models are missing small details that make them different from their real-life counterparts.

That's not a bad thing, it's just what you get in gaming.

GrottyWanker72 · Post by **GrottyWanker72** » 2007-06-16 03:13

TII wrote:They are issued M16s or M4s just like everyone else in RL.

They tend to be issued M4's which is a carbine as the creator said. They shouldn't have a full blown rifle it should be an SMG or a carbine.

Post by **Masaq** » 2007-06-16 10:41

Bobert's hit on a good point! Sod this messing around with polygons, let's all head off to a nice empty stretch of desert and do this stuff for real! The medics might find that shot people don't just get up if you defibrilate them and the guys who jump into choppers with no flight experience are going to struggle with all the buttons, and lord knows I'm not entirely sure that we'd be able to get any kind of insurance cover for any participants but hey, it's all in the name of reality right?

Please guys, it *is* a game and it's *never* going to be 100% true to life. For me, gameplay balance and uh, fun are more important that knowing that I have/haven't got ironsights on my rifle because in real life, I can't use both the ironsights and a grenade launcher.

Which is why, so long as the weapon chosen for crews is:

a) actually useful to defend the tanker when they're on foot
b) in use by the nations/similar nations in question
c) balanced roughly equally over the teams

I don't care what it is whether it's the M4, the L22A1 carbine, the P90, the '47 variant (forget the designation) or G3KA4.

(Although interestingly, Wikipedia (yes, not the world's most accurate resource I know), states that GB tank crews are issued with the standard L85A2, and only Apache pilots are to get the L22A1 as it's only in "extreme circumstances" in which they'd have to use it).

Skyren · Post by **Skyren** » 2007-06-16 11:13

I believe the british armoured crewmend get the AFV version of the L85. Not completely sure.

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-06-16 13:00

'[R-PUB wrote:Masaq']
a) actually useful to defend the tanker when they're on foot
b) in use by the nations/similar nations in question
c) balanced roughly equally over the teams

a)yes
b)yes
c)NO , unbalance is fun , anybody here plays FH?

[uBp]Irish · Post by **[uBp]Irish** » 2007-06-16 14:25

FH2 isnt out yet is it?

wrt Masaq:

It just seem slilke a kit that should never be out of their tank, is getting a weapon to powerful. A tanker has nothing to fear if they have to get out of their tank, because they still have a m16/g3 that they can use to still doa deadly job. Just seems like the kit is too good, and should have the weapon choice dropped a bit.

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-06-16 14:53

i was talking about FH for 1942 , there each team had a diferent weapon , kingtigers vs shermas , etc .

devs already said that crewman will have a carabine version , m4s , type-95B , for the mec im not sure , but will be great a g3a4 , and not the curretn specops weapon

Epim3theus · Post by **Epim3theus** » 2007-06-16 17:22

So in FH for 1942 you are just a piece of rapebait when you re in a Sherman? That s kind of cool, you wouldn t stand a chance without decent airsupport. Or is it like 5 shermans against one Tiger?

Post by **Masaq** » 2007-06-16 17:31

Wrt to crewmen not getting out- hopefully there's no reason that an Apache pilot IRL should ever need to use his carbine, but they're issued with one! If you scale down crewmen's weapons from rifles to carbines, sounds fine to me. I can't see an unscoped M4 being over-powerful for a crewman. Fact is, tanks do get shot to hell and people do have to bail out- and they should at least be able to shoot someone with a reasonable chance of success!

[uBp]Irish · Post by **[uBp]Irish** » 2007-06-16 18:05

i'm not saying that they should be weaponless, i'm saying simply that their weapon choices should be changed. IF i'm in a tank with an m16 and i have to jump out, i'm pretty secure in the fact i can kill someone with 2-3 shots wiith my m16 and do it at long range at that.

However.. you give me an mp5, or a m4a1 unscopped, and i'll be pissing my pants, feeling like michael durant in the scene in BHD.