NCO/breeching device

[billdan]

in my post about binocs (BTW i change my mind now b/c every grunt can get one for $20, and they probably do) i mentioned that a "NCO" kit would be nice. knife, NO pistol carbine (M4a1 set to burst for M4, can keep aimpoint cause other factions' carbines are f/a) w/ 6 mags, 1-2 frags, 1-2 smokes, 1 marker smoke, binocs, 2x field dressing, body armor

the NCO kit could replace sf on spawn menu and function as a "backup SL", "CQB rifleman", or "Pointman"/"Scout"

wouldnt be more popular than .6 rifleman because of less grenades, ammo, and limited sight zoom on carbines

.6 RPs require the SL to have 3 squad members in proximity to set them
perhaps ONE "NCO" as opposed to three "grunts" could also allow the RP to be set
probably hardcoded but could it be coded so that when the SL is down, the highest ranking "NCO" is temporarily given (like a "field promotion")SL abilities i.e. SL commo rose and capslock map until SL repawns because
IMO SLs should be not be able to lead or communicate with their squad when theyre critically injured or dead
again not sure if this is hardcoded or not

if this wasnt possible perhaps the kit could get some sort of useful CQB entry device, such as
1 flashbang (probably discussed before, couldnt find it in search): can someone explain to me why there are no flashbangs in PR? theres probably a good reason that i have not heard.every other player got one or two in AA)
and/or
breeching charge/device-let me explain:
could code like the SLAM with the timed burning thing, but very little splash-maybe only half meter radius and does not even do enough damage to kill someone lying on top of it. can doors be made unaffected by bullets?
could be made more useful with more destuctable doors or windows; imagine a raid on a building that's suspected of housing insurgents and/or a weapons cache. your squad approaches from an unobserved side of the building, NCO sets breaching charge, the squad piles up behing a rifleman less than 2 meters from the door/window. inside occupants hear a bang but before they realize where it came from, a marine is at the top of the stairs behind them double-tapping 5.56 into them.

grenades can also destroy doors, but the "FRAG OUT-tha' means ima comin' for you!!!" yell and the splash (which can TK dumb teammates and prevents immediate entry) takes away from the element of surprise

this could make the NCO more fun to play and slightly more useful, but again not the 4x zoomed assault rifle w/ a sack of grenades-unlimited ammo for squad-bunker building soldier the .6 rifleman is
though it could be more popular than say the engineer, but aren't they (lance corporals up through sergeants) like 1 for every 3-4 pfc's? idk

[Ironcomatose]

i like some of the ideas seen in this. Or maybe its just the fact that i hate that there are SF soldiers in the kit screen but then there is no grenadiers, as if you see more SF guys running around than grenadiers on a real battlefield. So it makes no sense and i would love for them to replace that kit with something

[Lampshade111]

An interesting idea, I don't know about the NCO class but I like the idea of breaching charges for some maps. Perhaps a powerful flashbang type effect could be added on the other side of the door so the enemies are stunned when you squad rushes in their and unloads three round bursts into them.

[DarkTalon]

I don't think we'll see usable doors on every building, however i do think this would be useful for a good sized hole in a wall.

[Teek]

so a Rifleman/Specops?

Better than l33tzors specops now.

[BetterDeadThanRed]

This is by far the best idea for a spec ops replacement. The breaching device should be only on certain maps (Al Basrah would be ideal) as you wouldn't want to clutter up the weapon selection menu.

[Lampshade111]

Keep the full automatic M4A1 however if the regular US Army is supposed to get M4s with the three round burst mode.

[motherdear]

The M4a1 doesn't have a burst firing mode, though you can shoot in bursts by holding a triger for a very very short time and letting go (all automatic weapons can do that and it's beter to fire in bursts than full auto in CQB unless it's very close)

Not a bad idea except maybe for NCO, but the breaches CAN kill in RL so why shouldn't they be able to do that? A c2 can give quite a blast and even kill someone on the other side of the door. How about making engineers be able to breach the door with a shotgun??

'

well the breaching charges can be very big, but you only use the big breachers if you want to break through armored glass or similar and thereby need a bigger charge. normally special forces with this equipment just make them to blow up the wall and not damage but confuse the enemies inside, because most of the time these charges are used in CT situations and you don't want to damage a potential hostage behind the wall that you don't know of.

[Long Bow]

I have yet to find a door I would need to breach. I'm sure that they must exist in the Beta somewhere? Are you talking about the doors on Assualt on Meteisa (sp?) main base? Those are large doors for vehicles though are they not? Would a breaching charge be used on these types of doors?

Now the NCO idea I think is really good. Forget the M4 give him the same loadout as a rifleman minus a few gernades and ammo pouch, add in a few more med packs and switch the binocs to the soflam. The point that you make about allowing for an organized squad to benefit from the NCO abilities is the key here. Not making the NCO kit some special CQC kit or have unique weapons. The presence of the NCO could allow for the RP suggestion you put forth or if the SL is down the NCO could do the 3+ squad mates to set a rally point. There could be other benefits to the NCO + SL squad that could come into play.

The NCO kit though would have to be limited to one per squad or else it wouldn't work properly (read: exploit)

[BetterDeadThanRed]

The breaching device could just as easilly be the C4 from the engineer kit. I like the flashbang idea a lot though.

[El_Vikingo]

What are we supposed to breach?

[Hitperson]

the M4 does have burst but the M4A1 is fully auto.

[BetterDeadThanRed]

What are we supposed to breach?

Walls.

Obviously there is little use for it now, but some time in the future it would be nice to be assaulting a complex and have the option to make other entry points.

[Bob_Marley]

But the most comonly used is the M4A1. Not sure about breaching but the flashbang would be great.

Bullhooks.

The M4 is standard issue in the US Army. In fact, I believe all "regular" (army/navy/air force/marines) troops issued with a carbine get the M4. The M4A1 is reserved for Special Operation Forces. US military doctrine does permit regular troops to carry unrestricted fully automatic assault rifles.

Flashbangs wouldn't be that useful, imo. Where they are useful, in clearing buildings, its better to toss a regular frag in anyway as it will probubly kill the enemy and if it doesn't it'll put them into LSD mode so you can gun them down easily. IIRC, FBs are only used IRL where the use of either fragmentation or concussion grenades would cause problems (particularly poorly constructed buildings, hostages, etc). They might be of some use in such a role on maps with insurgents, but other than that not really. They'd just be spammed in the open to blind the enemy. Which isn't all that realistic.

Edit: Oh, and for breaching things, what exactly is wrong with a good old brick of C4? You need to blow something up or open, think ahead and bring an engineer.

[eddie]

Or a LAW!

[Bob_Marley]

Or a LAW!

Ah, the Good old JA2 method. Who needs doors when we've got LAWs!

"M72A4 LAW - One hit from this Light Anti-Tank Weapon is better than a one way ticket to Judgement Day. No judge, no jury, and all executioner."

[Long Bow]

People are getting caught up on some little gadget and making up an excuse to keep the M4 around. I think the NCO idea is worth talking about some more as it could enhance squads willing to work together.

Enought talk about the toys.