Any *real* chopper pilots here that played Desert Combat for BF1942?

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2005-11-14 20:23

AAS (which nearly every game should be) has class limits, and on the non-AAS maps then they can be pickups. FH does both and look at how popular they are.

Artnez · Post by **Artnez** » 2005-11-14 22:45

BrokenArrow wrote:AAS (which nearly every game should be) has class limits, and on the non-AAS maps then they can be pickups. FH does both and look at how popular they are.

You're right. FH has gotten the gameplay down to a science, imho.

Corey Darling · Post by **Corey Darling** » 2005-11-14 23:30

have you guys seen what RC helicopters can do?

just curious

if not, watch this video, your jaw will drop.

they have a set up with a pitch range of ~-12 deg to +12 deg which allows indefinate inverted flight/climbs with full power available.

the only thing these helis cant do is true knife edge for any period of time.

http://www.augustoheli.com/videostuff/v ... turday.wmv

thats a 3D (aerobatic) inverted auto at the end there

maybe full size will be able to pull this off some day

GRB · Post by **GRB** » 2005-11-15 16:57

Corey Darling wrote: maybe full size will be able to pull this off some day

Possibly, but dont expect the pilot to survive..lmao. (imagine the G's from spinning like that.)

That is cool though. RC helos are fun. But dont compare em to real helicopters because its MUCH different..

USAF-Marshall · Post by **USAF-Marshall** » 2005-11-16 06:02

Artnez.com wrote:^ read title.

Can you please tell if the chopper controls in DC were more realistic than the ones in BF2? The reason I ask is... I would strongly advocate for DC chopper controls because they were much harder to learn.

The problem now is choppers are way to easy to fly.

The littlebird is harder to fly but the controls really dont allow you to do much except fly forward. Landing is near impossible because you need to line up just like you do a plane and gradually descend...

In DC, the choppers were very hard to fly in the beginning. Once good pilots got the hang if it, they did some crazy things and really added to the fight. I was one of them I love being a chopper pilot. I would spend the entire round inserting troops into difficult-to-reach places and it gave us some good leverage over the other team.

Everyone said that because the chopper controls were so difficult, you would always have noobs flying and crashing. It ended up completely different.. as those that didnt know how to fly just gave up and those that wanted to learn did so to show off... which is good for team of course.

I really wish some of the stuff from DC gameplay was brought back into PR. Everything didnt flow as balanced as it does in BF2 which is what made the game great. It wasn't realistic, but me, being a realism freak, never got bored.... why is that?

I am a pilot in RL with Fixed wing, little helo experience but the saying "The bigger they are the easier to fly" still applies. Yes Helicopters are unstable in flight and it would make it alot harder if you really had the whole Collective Tourqe factor moving the helicopter if you arent keeping up in the stirrups like it would in RL. The thing with the little bird also is the same as the quote. There is nothing to it, the slightest hand movement on the stick IRL would send it wherever your hand moved without hesitation. If you want to see what a real Helo feels like get Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004 and fly the Bell 206 that they have. It is as real as it gets (only it auto compensates for the collective so the tourqe isnt a big issue). As with the game I try to fly as much as possible but with people always chopper whoring it makes it hard. The game would be alot better if the SH could hold room for the normal crew of 3 (Or even 4 if you add a co pilot slot) and have room for 6 passengers in the back. It would make the game alot more teamwork based with the ability to move entire squads from point A to point B and still not lose your waist gunners.

Doug97 · Post by **Doug97** » 2005-11-16 13:47

Artnez.com wrote:BF2 choppers do not have that "collective" that you speak of. Watch the torque meter on your chopper hud. If i let go of the "forward" key, the torque drops --- it doesnt stay.

It does if you use a joystick and throttle.

Hard does not necessarily mean realistic.

toast · Post by **toast** » 2005-12-14 09:40

Figisaacnewton wrote:I'm not a pilot, but compared to flight sims.. I think that BF2 has the best physics model to work with, with the exception of the throttle, which needs to be changed to work exactly like POE's does. my 2 cents

If you loaded up a flight sim and put the settings to "easy", the choppers would fly like BF2.

If you then cranked the settings to "hard", the choppers would fly more like DC and would require constant adjustment to keep it flying.

So there you have it. I don't want to hear any more bollocks about BF2 choppers being more "realistic" than DC. A realistic chopper would climb quickly, fly faster, require constant control, would circle and bank correctly and would be shot down with a single tank round. And before you comment about tanks not being able to shoot down choppers in real life, THINK AGAIN. The US Army has deployed special munitions for shooting down choppers from the main gun of an M1A2.

[GO]Bobster · Post by **[GO]Bobster** » 2005-12-14 13:41

Janes Longbow2 was as real as ive got on the PC

TweedleDee · Post by **TweedleDee** » 2005-12-14 20:51

please don't revert back to the stone age controls of dc helicopters......

i was a very good pilot back then, my handle was pancho....

i enjoyed the choppers very much, but the controls now add for a more smooth flight, more precise air strikes and smoother landings.....

bf2 chopper controls are a generation step up better than the dc controls. there is still alot to think about, like gaining height advantage, setting up ur gunner for an easy missle cam kill, pithing nose down and strafing to circle ur prey... noobs cant do that

DEDMON5811 · Post by **DEDMON5811** » 2005-12-14 21:07

i miss the little bird with the guns from dc though

Armand61685 · Post by **Armand61685** » 2005-12-14 22:37

What we need is a zoom for the gunner's camera in the attack helos. I think the gunner should always be firing in the camera view, and be able to zoom in. Like that video of the US attack helo lighting up the iraqis near the truck.

Figisaacnewton · Post by **Figisaacnewton** » 2005-12-14 22:50

Armand61685 wrote:What we need is a zoom for the gunner's camera in the attack helos. I think the gunner should always be firing in the camera view, and be able to zoom in. Like that video of the US attack helo lighting up the iraqis near the truck.

I think a good way to do that would be to do this: Let the pilot fly the thing, and be able to use flares.

Let the copilot use ALL weapon systems, switching between them with numbers and such like how it is with tanks now.

This would help the lone pilot helicopter syndrome a lot, and if done this way, the zoom could easily be implemented into the weapon systems, so that you wouln'dt be trying to fly while zoomed in.

Armand61685 · Post by **Armand61685** » 2005-12-14 22:59

Figisaacnewton wrote:I think a good way to do that would be to do this: Let the pilot fly the thing, and be able to use flares.

Let the copilot use ALL weapon systems, switching between them with numbers and such like how it is with tanks now.

This would help the lone pilot helicopter syndrome a lot, and if done this way, the zoom could easily be implemented into the weapon systems, so that you wouln'dt be trying to fly while zoomed in.

Well, whatever is realistic, then do it! If the attack helo pilots can fire hydras, then leave it be.

Question: to anyone with attack helo information, do real life pilots get to fire hydra missles? If not, then we have our answer--give all weapon capabilities to the gunner.

Bottom line: just make it true to life.

UH60BHPilot · Post by **UH60BHPilot** » 2005-12-15 10:24

Oh boy... DC is where I got my name. Not trying to brag here, but I was a legendary Black Hawk pilot in good ole' DC. So many hours spent on Lost Village (BEST map ever made in the history of battlefield) inserting troops into the Slums and Villas.

I remember when I first installed DC and tried to fly a heli. ROFL, me and my friends had great fun trying to last 30 seconds in the air, actually we had a challenge to see who could get from point 'A' to point 'B' without crashing.

DC was the best because you actually had to be good to fly helicopters. It was almost a "title" you had to work for. DC's were amazing IMO, with a few tweaks here and there they would be perfect with the BF2 engine I think.

Question: to anyone with attack helo information, do real life pilots get to fire hydra missles? If not, then we have our answer--give all weapon capabilities to the gunner.

I do not think so, no. Pilot is just that, a pilot. And the gunner is just that, a gunner.

Armand61685 wrote:What we need is a zoom for the gunner's camera in the attack helos. I think the gunner should always be firing in the camera view, and be able to zoom in. Like that video of the US attack helo lighting up the iraqis near the truck.

Are you referring to this one? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... Helicopter

They got pwned...

Armand61685 · Post by **Armand61685** » 2005-12-15 19:12

UH60BHPilot wrote:Oh boy... DC is where I got my name. Not trying to brag here, but I was a legendary Black Hawk pilot in good ole' DC. So many hours spent on Lost Village (BEST map ever made in the history of battlefield) inserting troops into the Slums and Villas.

I remember when I first installed DC and tried to fly a heli. ROFL, me and my friends had great fun trying to last 30 seconds in the air, actually we had a challenge to see who could get from point 'A' to point 'B' without crashing.

DC was the best because you actually had to be good to fly helicopters. It was almost a "title" you had to work for. DC's were amazing IMO, with a few tweaks here and there they would be perfect with the BF2 engine I think.

I do not think so, no. Pilot is just that, a pilot. And the gunner is just that, a gunner.

Are you referring to this one? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... Helicopter

They got pwned...

Heh ok, then all weapons capabilities should be given to the gunner. I hope the devs have or will consider/ed this.

SiN|ScarFace · Post by **SiN|ScarFace** » 2005-12-15 21:20

I almost dedicated myself to chopper pilot back in DC. I loved the Hind and LB.

I still prefer the way they worked in DC regaurdless of how they work IRL. Givin that most dont have the proper controls that are required to fly a chopper IRL the way DC helos worked with they keys and mouse was great. I could make any chopper in DC go anywhere I wanted. I could land on a dime (softly) terrain mask at speed and stop mid air and hover with a flare no problem. I loved dropping off troops on LV no Para and only touching down long enough for guys to step off and away I would go, dodging rpgs on the way in and out.

I just feel the way the choppers worked in DC was much more rewarding than in BF2. I know this mod wont make them like DC and since DC I dont really touch choppers at all anymore. They are not fun to fly IMO.

The on off power in DC was better than the way it works now. It wasnt that hard to tap the throttle to maintain a hover. IMO people complain because it was hard.

UH60BHPilot · Post by **UH60BHPilot** » 2005-12-16 00:59

Exactly, they just couldn't handle the power of the Blackhawk

. In DC_Final there was a "Auto Hover" button (Right mouse button) that you would hold, and the game would provide with the perfect amount of lift to get you to hover, as well as move around a bit. That was a great feature IMO.

ECale3 · Post by **ECale3** » 2005-12-16 02:50

Armand61685 wrote:Heh ok, then all weapons capabilities should be given to the gunner. I hope the devs have or will consider/ed this.

IIRC the pilot can assume control of any and all the weapons onboard. At the very least he could assume control of the cannon and the Hydras.

UH60BHPilot · Post by **UH60BHPilot** » 2005-12-16 06:45

Yes, but I doubt there is a way we could allow both persons to manage the weapons realistically and/or effectivly.

ECale3 · Post by **ECale3** » 2005-12-17 20:53

Thats not the point, by completely disarming the pilot you're not making it any more realistic. A better solution would be to correct the behaviors of the other weapons systems (or LOS so the choppers don't have to be right ontop of their targets to kill them).