M203

system · Post by **system** » 2007-06-30 14:21

Jimmy_Smack wrote:I'm sure that in Battlefield 2 they developers just put the smoke trail in the game so that players could see and understand the lob the grenade has.

Yes, but in PR?

That's what training maps are for. It shouldn't be in there just so players can learn how to use it.

daranz · Post by **daranz** » 2007-06-30 14:26

Jimmy_Smack wrote:I'm sure that in Battlefield 2 they developers just put the smoke trail in the game so that players could see and understand the lob the grenade has.

Makes sense. Considering the intelligence of some BF2 players, if the nade didn't leave a smoke trail, you'd get people wondering if the grenade goes down first and then up, or the other way.

system · Post by **system** » 2007-07-03 03:25

daranz wrote:Makes sense. Considering the intelligence of some BF2 players, if the nade didn't leave a smoke trail, you'd get people wondering if the grenade goes down first and then up, or the other way.

Yes, I could imagine...

SpartanofShadows · Post by **SpartanofShadows** » 2007-07-03 03:35

They dont leave smoke trails. Youtube M16 or M4 /203. No smoke trail

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-07-03 03:51

Tracer*

Krawkfaagel · Post by **Krawkfaagel** » 2007-07-03 11:23

In open areas the smoketrail isnt needed, but when theres trees all over the place you have no idea where your nade went without it.

One alternative would be to make a sight that arent realistic but works in a realistic manner ingame. Like the horizontal bars in sniper-scopes but just drawn onscreen.

Hardtman · Post by **Hardtman** » 2007-07-03 11:35

Krawkfaagel wrote:In open areas the smoketrail isnt needed, but when theres trees all over the place you have no idea where your nade went without it.

One alternative would be to make a sight that arent realistic but works in a realistic manner ingame. Like the horizontal bars in sniper-scopes but just drawn onscreen.

Yeah,I had something like that on my mind myself,basically you have the grenade iron-sights only and place the bar for the right range over the target,kinda like the virtual crosshair does it now.
This might not be as it is in reality,but i would think it's a lot better than just firing from the hip with those virtual crosshairs.

Krawkfaagel · Post by **Krawkfaagel** » 2007-07-03 21:58

Well, yes. Hitting targets when you are relatively close isnt a problem with the current sights.
But when firing at longer distances it get a little trickier and then guessing or using "that spot" on the weapon model doesnt cut it anymore.
The role of the m203 is to get the grenade farther than you can throw it. Not clearing houses/bunkers.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-07-03 22:51

These things are so deadly, so many times I've been on a roof top watching some hombres run across as a squad (pretty far out there) and boom boom...two nades and they are out. Its a great assualt option as you can really press the issue with a quick step and launch one into a squads position. I dont think they are meant to be really long range weapons (though they are deadly in the right hands) but better for assualting positions quickly and where a normal grenade just can't reach. With this in mind, I have no issues with the current site, I can't put it through a window everytime but I'm not sure that would be a realistic expectation. Doorways seem to work just fine for me though...I do find I get nade-raped from time to time as I like to run around with the 203 option on leaving me helpless in ultra-cqb situations. Otherwise, dodging around and surpising someone up close is an instant kill-thrill. Oh and make sure you type "AHAHahaha" after that proner drops to the ground only to be noob-tubed my the insta-nade

I hate proners. But yeah...better site would be cool...I imagine once the new animator gets up to speed on the other 100 fixs (ie proning) that we'll start seeing some new sites on many of the weapons.

{GD}siredmond · Post by **{GD}siredmond** » 2007-07-04 05:07

The game with the best M-203 sights out there. Infiltration!

http://dslyecxi.com/botg_infiltration.html

scroll down about 2/3 of the way or just search M-203 to find it.

El_Vikingo · Post by **El_Vikingo** » 2007-07-04 05:28

I remember reading that Guide ages ago!

Krawkfaagel · Post by **Krawkfaagel** » 2007-07-04 09:18

The m203 is not intended as a short-range-room-clearing-noob-tube.

http://grenadelauncher.com/ wrote:M79 US Grenade Launcher Viet Nam Era

Perhaps the most dramatic evolution to the grenade came in 1961 when the the first M79 Grenade Launcher was delivered to the US Army. This weapon was solely dedicated to shooting the 40mm grenade. The M79 was designed to accurately fill the gap between the maximum 50 meter range of a hand thrown grenade and the 300 meters of mortar fire. The rifled 40mm barrel of the M79 caused a spinning which helped stabilize the grenade's flight and also used centrifugal force to arm the grenade after a flight of about 15 meters. The M79 40mm Grenade Launcher was very accurate up to 200 meters.

The M79 Grenade Launcher looked like a shotgun with a huge barrel. The M79 is a single shot, shoulder fired grenade launcher with a break-barrel loader that fired a spherical 40mm grenade. The steel M-406 40mm HE grenade would explode upon impact and could send over 300 fragments out to a lethal radius of up to 5 meters. To fully utilize this new weapon, the US developed new grenades. One M79 40mm grenade contained approximately 45 small darts in a casing made of plastic. This version was replaced by the M-576 grenade filled with 27 rounds of 00 buckshot. The M-576 grenade was carried down the M79 barrel on top of a 40mm plastic sabot (like a sled). Upon leaving the grenade launcher barrel, the buckshot traveled forward un-aided. The M79 grenade launcher also fired non-lethal grenades with smoke, CS gas and flares.
M203 US 40mm Grenade Launcher

While an interesting addition to the US arsenal in Viet Nam, the M79 Grenade Launcher had a limited usage due to its weight and the loss of small arms fire capability. The M79 was carried as an extra weapon that was both heavy and cumbersome. To counter this, the M203 40mm grenade launcher was created. The M203 was attached to the M16 Rifle.

In PR now its very uncommon to see anyone use the weapon at ranges beyond 50m. Probably becuse of the bad sights.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-07-04 16:57

50m's is not very far at all...the nade doesn't even exlpode technically until after 40ms though. That happens sometimes but others if it bounces it'll explode sooner. I see guys, including myself, use this thing all the time in .6 at distances over 50m's. I haven't once been noob tubed with it but I have definitely had the bunker on mestia bombarded with them etc. They worked awesome. When I was talking about putting them through doorways I sure as heck didn't mean doorways 10ms from me. They are great for house to house combat. If the enemy is holed up somewhere you can lay down from a long ways off and drop those things through the doors. Easy as pie. They are a great tool but hardly anyone even uses them now, when I request one I'm usually the only person getting it. I think it's just undiscovered. It's super powerful especially since everyone is a rifleman and can resupply you so easily. Also some of the grenadier kits get the rifleman scoped weapon, indeed a lethal combination.

daranz · Post by **daranz** » 2007-07-04 17:27

I've been using the grenadier kits more than ever in .6 (now that there's more medics, I can afford to not be one of them), and they work quite well at longer ranges, although I still sometimes experience random deviation of the grenades which is very annoying. Yes, I know that standing still makes your aim better, but I still feel like I'm aiming with crosshairs and conefire instead of true sights. It's something that you have to get used to, though. They make a great long range weapon, for general suppression or elimination of entrenched enemies. With the Chinese grenadier having a scope, you can be highly effective without ever firing one grenade. Of course, it's a limited kit, so dying might effectively prevent you from getting it again if you don't have anywhere to request it from, or if the QM is being bitchy.

The only thing besides the visible trail that I find annoying is the bouncyness of the grenades. In real life, 40mm grenades fired from 203s are armed when they rotate, so if they hit a wall close by and drop to the ground, they won't arm. In PR, on the other hand, I had grenades bounce off walls 80 meters away, and explode elsewhere.

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2007-07-04 17:44

Krawkfaagel wrote:The m203 is not intended as a short-range-room-clearing-noob-tube.

It is when you use buckshot rounds.

$kelet0r · Post by **$kelet0r** » 2007-07-04 18:21

Question for the devs:
How possible is it that rather than have the current crosshair system for the underslung grenade launchers that, now that PR has its own M4, M16, QBZ95 and G3A3, 2 seperate rifle models be made for the grenadier so that in effect the grenadier is carrying two weapons. So that first you are in normal assault rifle mode and then to switch to the UGL, there is an actual weapon switch to the assault rifle with UGL ironsights that can actually be used rather than the current indistinct animated fumble and raising of cosmetic irons? My assumption is that the only modelling change really necessary would be to have a normal AR model and then a second with UGL irons raised.
That then begs the question of whether it is possible in UGL mode to aim the rifle in the default way in the direction of the target before right clicking to access ironsight mode and then restrict movement to the rear sights only along the y axis leaving the front sights completely rigid to change the barrel elevation and hence range...pipe dreams amirite

Hardtman · Post by **Hardtman** » 2007-07-04 19:09

$kelet0r wrote:Question for the devs:
How possible is it that rather than have the current crosshair system for the underslung grenade launchers that, now that PR has its own M4, M16, QBZ95 and G3A3, 2 seperate rifle models be made for the grenadier so that in effect the grenadier is carrying two weapons. So that first you are in normal assault rifle mode and then to switch to the UGL, there is an actual weapon switch to the assault rifle with UGL ironsights that can actually be used rather than the current indistinct animated fumble and raising of cosmetic irons? My assumption is that the only modelling change really necessary would be to have a normal AR model and then a second with UGL irons raised.
That then begs the question of whether it is possible in UGL mode to aim the rifle in the default way in the direction of the target before right clicking to access ironsight mode and then restrict movement to the rear sights only along the y axis leaving the front sights completely rigid to change the barrel elevation and hence range...pipe dreams amirite

As far as I am aware we already HAVE the nade launcher as a whole different weapon.

Krawkfaagel · Post by **Krawkfaagel** » 2007-07-04 20:00

'[R-DEV wrote:Eddie Baker']It is when you use buckshot rounds.

Well... Yeah...
Can we get those and canister rounds for tanks?
(Or not. Flechette/buckshot m203 would be devastating. Might as well add a flametrower.)

knewman · Post by **knewman** » 2007-07-04 20:05

Skeletor the problem is that sights in battlefield 2 are not adjustable, and for the m203 iron sights to work they need to be adjustable based on what range your engaging a target. So replacing the virtual sights with ironsights isn't going to do anything to help aiming.