We the People

[Jeeves]

No, I never have had that problem. Why? Because, unlike you obviously, I'm actually part of the 'community'. I don't contribute 1/10 as much as most, but still. So whenever I want to play I join my clans TS, my teams tourny TS, or the tester teamspeak to see who all is on and get together on one server.

If you had any sense you'd realize games become popular by being different, by being unique. If PR was nothing more than vBF2 with better guns, we wouldn't be having this conversation because it would have died out months ago.

I was talking about before you started playing sport. The person that was aimed at was playing back in 2005 (like I was), back when the comunity was much smaller.

That's about te potential for there to be swearing/adult content that would have given the game a higher rating had it been a part of the game itself, nothing to do with changing the way the game is played.

And as you can quite obviusly see, there is no worry with me not finding a populated server to play on. The beta usually has about 3, let alone the current full release.

Well since two of you thought I was talking to you when I quoted someone else...read above I was not talking about now, I was talking about the old days...before you knew it existed.

[Outlawz7]

You are saying its our way or the highway, there is no middle ground. You have seen that there are hundreds of people that prefer the short spawn servers. If you force them all to stop then they will either play in normal servers (which I would prefer not since they tend to not play with teamwork) or not play at all, which would in turn lower the popularity of PR and bring less new people to play the game.

3 shepherds is better than 300 sheeps...

[WNxKenwayy]

Wow, do you see me personaly attacking anyone? What made you think that comming across so violently was a good idea, did I kill your mother. Telling me to have a shorter lifespan, jesus who is the imature little kid here? Grow up kid.

To address what little you had to contribute.

That's like saying Suzuki has nothing to do with my motorcycle just because they built it. IF THEY DIDN"T FU**ING MAKE IT I WOULDN'T HAVE IT!!!!

They made the bike but did they make the gang (or what ever you kids call it now adays) that rides together...you know the community of bikers.

Yes they made the product (well moddified someone elses product) and then gave it to the people to play. Everyone will play it differently, just as everyone will do everything differently that is what makes people people. Read my post above for the rest of where this is going.

Again I am not trying to come off as a combative, I was more trying to bring up the fact there are other (more diplomatic) options to the problem. Removing players and denying servers is not the way to go IMO.

Yes, you are personally attacking people. You are trying to hurt the actual PR community by trying to make us do something which would negatively impact the entire point of this mod. You are saying that the devs have wasted their time on figuring out the perfect balance of respawn time/gameplay time to create as close of a balance as possible to encourage 'realistic' gameplay.

Everyone here is thinking exactly what I wrote, just not willing to say it.

Yes, I am a kid. They let kids do what I do for a living, good call. There's even a pretty picture of me at the end of every post just to show how childish I am.

Are you comparing a gaming community with a motorcycle gang?

Anyways. Would there be a motorcycle gang if the motorcycle manufactures didn't make the bikes? NO. If Suzuki decides their next bike will be hot pink and only go 20 mph, then guess what? Their next bike will be hot pink and only go 20 mph reguardless of wtfever I say. Its their product. Suzuki is motivated not to do that by money. PR team isn't, they are motivated only by a desire to create a game that THEY want. This big community we have no didn't just get together one day and say "hey lets build a great realistic shooter on the vBF2 platform". No, the devs decided to make it all on their own, then the community grew. The dev's owe the community jack all, the community owes the dev's everything. Granted they don't have that attitude thankfuly, but that's the facts.

Now that you have absolutely zero argument for having any 'right' what so ever over PR, or anyone without a [DEV] tag for that matter having any, why the hell are you still arguing? Eggman has stated dozens of time (SEARCH BUTTON) that they aren't motivated to create the biggest community. He wants the realism/simulation crowd, and those that want a 0 second respawn aren't it.

[geogob]

Just calm down people. No reason to start insulting each other (unless you're out of arguments).

Jeeves, from your perspective, what is the point of making a mod of a game? I'd like to have your opinion on this.

[IAJTHOMAS]

They made the bike but did they make the gang (or what ever you kids call it now adays) that rides together...you know the community of bikers.

There wouldn't be a biker gang with out a bike....

[Outlawz7]

Im suprised, no one ever complains, that vBF2's 15 second respawn is too much

[Jeeves]

I did not foresee this turning into a flame war, I thought more people would be able to hold a civil discussion about alternative ways of dealing with the problem that has divided the community (there used to be more posters that were fans of the short spawns, but I guess they were all run off). Since people have turned to personal insults and again the pampas attitude I was mentioning earlier I request that this thread be closed (since I cant close it myself). There is nothing good coming of this thread and I apologize for it. I was hoping for a more civil discussion.

Again I will say that simply putting "short spawn" in the server name will tell any new person that it is not the original version. When I go into any other game for the first time and I see a description of what is inside said server than I know it is not the original game, otherwise they would not choose to advertise it. This is a way to appease all of those in the community, not just a fraction of the community. And I must reiterate the fact that I do not play on short spawn servers and will only play on servers where people work together, I just respect others decisions to play differently.

[IAJTHOMAS]

I was talking about the old days...before you knew it existed.

I knew about it from 0.3, but what has that got to do with anything? I assume that's meant to mean you're opinion is better/more important than mine

We aren't going to regress to when the mod was little heard of and barely developed. We're in the here and now with a popular mod which has and is looking to have no worries populating servers.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

The fast twitch smacktard fests can still exist, on passworded servers, just not public servers.

The reason I told you to search was not to inflate my post count ( which is vitally important to me) but because this entire discussion has been had before.

We the people is a pretentious title because you imply that the PR is created by the people and for the people.
A ludicrous claim and one that sets the tone for the rest of your post and most of them following.

The style of play that you feel is your right is not the intended mode and so the DEVs take steps to keep it going in their direction.

The argument w/ CDU is not about short spawn but about licensing and while that is related it could apply to other modifications of the mod.

You apparently don't believe that what they have created belongs to them, you feel that as a member of a "community" you have some inherent claim to their property.

I think you are wrong.

[WNxKenwayy]

I was talking about before you started playing sport. The person that was aimed at was playing back in 2005 (like I was), back when the comunity was much smaller.




Well since two of you thought I was talking to you when I quoted someone else...read above I was not talking about now, I was talking about the old days...before you knew it existed.

Yup, and guess what? It will never ever return to that, until something more realistic comes along. With nothing on even the vastly distant horizon to challenge PR, that isn't a worry. You are proving my point so I should thank you.

If PR was nothing more than vBF2 with more deadly guns, it wouldn't be the largest BF2, hell it probably wouldn't be a mod anymore period. Read every review written about PR. Every single one mentions the longer respawn timer as perhaps the most noticeable change after the weapon tweaks. Uniqueness = popularity. Now that the community has reached the size it is, the dev's can start making it what they always wanted, because it will never ever be hard to find a server at any time of day with the popularity of the mod in USA/Euro.

Stop saying that by not having 0 second respawns the community will magicly die. The .6 beta alone has more people playing it than almost all other BF2 mods and there isn't a single 0 respawn server. Every single one of your arguments doesn't just fail, its fails miserably. Why? Because we've already beaten this horse a 1000 fu**ing times before when the servers first started popping up.

[eddie]

No........ A new member may join up, join one of these modded servers, thinking to himself "WTF did they put modded? I know it's modded because I downloaded the game!" Then think PR is like that. PR does want those people, but we want them to develop into tactical players.

[Jeeves]

Yes, you are personally attacking people. You are trying to hurt the actual PR community by trying to make us do something which would negatively impact the entire point of this mod. You are saying that the devs have wasted their time on figuring out the perfect balance of respawn time/gameplay time to create as close of a balance as possible to encourage 'realistic' gameplay.

Everyone here is thinking exactly what I wrote, just not willing to say it.

Yes, I am a kid. They let kids do what I do for a living, good call. There's even a pretty picture of me at the end of every post just to show how childish I am.

Are you comparing a gaming community with a motorcycle gang?

Anyways. Would there be a motorcycle gang if the motorcycle manufactures didn't make the bikes? NO. If Suzuki decides their next bike will be hot pink and only go 20 mph, then guess what? Their next bike will be hot pink and only go 20 mph reguardless of wtfever I say. Its their product. Suzuki is motivated not to do that by money. PR team isn't, they are motivated only by a desire to create a game that THEY want. This big community we have no didn't just get together one day and say "hey lets build a great realistic shooter on the vBF2 platform". No, the devs decided to make it all on their own, then the community grew. The dev's owe the community jack all, the community owes the dev's everything. Granted they don't have that attitude thankfuly, but that's the facts.

Now that you have absolutely zero argument for having any 'right' what so ever over PR, or anyone without a [DEV] tag for that matter having any, why the hell are you still arguing? Eggman has stated dozens of time (SEARCH BUTTON) that they aren't motivated to create the biggest community. He wants the realism/simulation crowd, and those that want a 0 second respawn aren't it.

Personaly insulting someone becuase their view is different is childish, it does not matter what your age is; I am refering to your maturity level.

You were the one that compared a video game to a bike, I was just going with it.

Suzuki would not make a pink bike that goes 20 (unless they are marketing children) becuase that is not what the community wants. It is not worth their time or effort to make something the comunity does not want. The same can go for a mod, why would they put their time and effort into something that the comunity does not want.

There is obviously a good amount of people out there that want short spawns, if not there would not be full servers every night. And as I said a small comunity does not make a good gaming community, I know that when I want to play a game and there is no one playing I will not sit around waiting for someone to start playing, I will go play a different game. Now if everyone was to do what I just did than there would be no one playing and then no more community. The more people playing the game means the more people to play with at any time of the day. This is important to those playing the game, mabey not the developers but to me the player it is.

[KingofCamelot]

Again I will say that simply putting "short spawn" in the server name will tell any new person that it is not the original version. When I go into any other game for the first time and I see a description of what is inside said server than I know it is not the original game, otherwise they would not choose to advertise it. This is a way to appease all of those in the community, not just a fraction of the community. And I must reiterate the fact that I do not play on short spawn servers and will only play on servers where people work together, I just respect others decisions to play differently.

And my main objection to that theory is not everyone speaks English. Just speaking for myself here, but I know quite a few of our players do not speak English as a first language. So, you have to realize that they may not understand what "short spawn" entails, for all they may know thats part of the server's name, etc. You can't assume that everyone will immediately understand, and what we are trying to avoid is confusion.

Now, the fun stuff. At the OP's request I will close this thread. No it's not censorship.

Kenway, please watch the temper the in the future. I appreciate your passion and your respect/support for the Dev team, but if you could keep some of the more angry response to yourself it'd be nice. Not that I don't enjoy them, I just would like to avoid friction amongst community memebers.

If anyone would like to continue this discussion with the OP or other posters, theres always PMs. Thread closed.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

But you don't get it Kenway.

If you don't agree with me you are an elitist.

If you don't want to negotiate to give me what I what then you are pompous.

I have my opinion and people who don't agree with me are just wrong.

I can say the most pretentious self involved things showing disrespect and disdain for something you like and I will be surprised if you are not happy and friendly after that.

After all, I am the ........ people.

[*2Recon*]

When I saw the news release of an application in order to even have the “privilege” of running one of the .6 servers I was furious. You might say I have no right to be angry, but I disagree.

You do not have the right to be angry or anything for that matter. Why? Because you have not payed for the product and therefore you have no rights to it. You can feel whatever you want but you dont have the right. What does this matter to the discussion? Nothing, I am such a small person that I just had to point it out. Because I am the People.

[eggman]

Starting a thread with "we the people ..." and then:
"You talk about community yet you censor those in the community that appose your dictatorship ways" and then:
"but they really have nothing to do with the community"
... and then you say you didn't expect this to become a flame fest?

If those snippets are not a troll... um.. not sure I know what is then.

And like most of the arguments people put up against this, it's a few people making very philosophical and hypothetical arguments that are not based in fact. We're not just talking exclusively about short spawn servers here... we're talking about taking the PR mod and making it into something completely different than what we designed. And when we ask folks in a reasonable manner not to do that, we get told to suck ****.

And somehow after putting in thousands of hours into PR, paying thousands of dollars worth of server costs, when we object to some guy who wants to spend a few hours ripping up our mod to prop up on his $99 / month server for a few weeks until something better comes along you have the gall to try and vilify the Project Reality creators for this?



:d uh: