2 versions of PR ?

[DivS-konti]

Hello together.

Everybody can have a look on other mods. Yes, that's right. Now guess why we still play PR? Correct, we still like some aspects of it. But there were more aspects to like than to dislike in the past (for me and some others).

Some features haven't improved gameplay yet. I mean especially the Quartermaster. Now it's like there's one QM for every player on the map. That can mean 64 QMs in one battlescene. How realistic is that?
I mean the QM-function has been invented to limit the kits, hasn't it? Next is the tank thingy... but I don't like to discuss about that again.

Now what I like to say is: please try to simplify the kit-limiting system and think about the spawnpoints again! Them don't need to be treated like the holy grail, in my eyes.

Yes, it is the modding team who's in charge - totally agree with that! But as others already said: the community is all of us! So why not telling what you're thinking of?

Greetings
konti

[Deer]

Hello together.
Now what I like to say is: please try to simplify the kit-limiting system and think about the spawnpoints again! Them don't need to be treated like the holy grail, in my eyes.
konti

About spawnpoints, the absolute rule about not having them in any other flag but mainbases might not work in every map in every case. I think there could be some very carefully thinked flags in some maps which are not mainbases but has the spawnpoints, but what others think ? And i think its possible that other team has the spawnpoints for that flag and other doesnt, like when attackers have the map 60% controlled, they could get spawnpoints a bit closer to the frontline, instead of having to walk from far away mainbase(this could be good for infantry based maps?)

For example when attackers captures 4th flag which is 800metres from their mainbase, the flag would have spawnpoints 600 metres from the attackers mainbase(200 metres from the flag itself), but only when attacker team has the 4th flag, defenders wouldnt get those spawnpoints. Flags 2-3 wouldnt have this kind of spawnpoints.

Im was thinking to use this kind of system for my map scenario mode (if its gonne be made) so that when attackers destroys AA turret, they would get paratrooper spawnpoints behind enemy front line(but not close the frontline) (technically that AA turret would have a flag under it with tiny capture area, its not possible to enable spawnpoint after destroying object, but they would have to sit within 2metres from the turret for some time as a replacement for destroying the turret)

[T0M@field]

Keep it easy and simple... thats what i wanna say everytime when i read something like this.

True, the idea is good BUT the rule is to complex and the implementation into the mod might be to hard. I just see everytime that many have good ideas but they are just to complicated. Mostly a quite simple feature/idea is better to understand & play.

Back to my idea of the airspawn:
These rules controlled spawnpionts like rallypionts, spawn vehicles, bunkers and firebases where u might spawn - every spawnpoint has its own rules/characterisitcs. Why?
Its confusing, its not logical and unrealistic.

A airspawn would be very easy to implement and to understand.
At the map airport we have a airspawn at the beach and its working fine...(if the brits could spawn at a higher altitude - cause spawnraping it quite easy now).
And i mean, isnt it very realistic to arrive as a paratroop instead of as a "backpack guy"?
Even the problem that a player has to walk a long time cause his squadleader wasn't able (or even to stupid on a public server) to set a good rallypoint would be history... you just would spawn and decide if you skydive stealthy into the action or onto a rooftop or just somewhere in order to flank the enemies.

Defending and attacking important areas would be more realistic and the map could be played at every location.
Try to imagine that everyone is just spawning in a AC-10 Hercules (which is invisible of course if u just spawn in the air^^).

Spawning in troop-vehicles like a APC is unrealistic too.
Mostly it is used for spawning behind the enemy lines as long as its not destroyed which happens quite often cause the rest uses this "important" vehicle to fight against tanks.
Getting a crewmans kit when you spawned at a vehicle is impossible sometimes too.
And last but not least some crewman are just driving without any stop - and everyone knows what happens if you get out of a driving vehicle^^.

Rearming at a firebase possible and realistic... but able to spawn at it? Thats a nice idea to push the gameplay but unrealistic in many aspects - sorry.

Does anyone think that the commander will be more powerful in 0.6?
yes he will be - but only if he'll
explain over and over again how these assets can be built by the other players.
If u wanna have the optimum of defence at a flag your veteran squad just has to built as many assets against these "public noobs" and kick their asses.

I mean PR has a slight aftertaste of a 2 class game:
The rookies and the privileged veterans.
Guess what everyone will be when hes playing this complex mod the first time.
I'm sorry that i've to say it, but some/many players and community members are unpolitly and impatiently to the newcomers.
Besides, what will happen when a new serveradmin trys to set up a server?
I am a admin and started one of the first german ABR servers with pr 02anthing - it was a hell of a job to get it work properly. Right now we are using even more stuff in order to run a good server.
Then try to imagine that a newcomer admin will not be proper informed about the wiki and the board... he just got the DL-links ... AND hes not able to speak and write english well.
With this coming licence feature of 0.6 and the complex rulesystem
PR got even more artificial/selfmade logic barrieres.

I know that i've to read a manual if i wanna play a simulation or anything else which is quite difficult to handle. But i can't read any information advice when i load a pr map Just a advice to read the wiki would be good start..... which might be a nice interim solution.

I mean this mod is getting more complex and we & the devs should realize that we may dig our own grave if we make PR to difficult to play for all these players who dont have so much freetime, language skills, admin-know-how to get into this mod in order to administer, understand and play it well although these newcomers are skilled and willing to play well.

And by the way (it should be a new topic and not discussed here now) the admin is to powerless!!!
Hes not able to see any name(tag on a map) in order to judge over smacktards. Thats the biggest barrier for me as an admin!

In my opinion this mod lost much fun factor cause its getting more complex and in the meantime its getting more unlogical barrieres (ingame and "outgame") and for this reason its getting more unfair to pr newcomers.

Didnt understand anything or at leat one point... come into our teamspeak and discuss with me... in german^^ (81.209.167.157:8767 PW.moinmoin)
I mean i try my best to explain myself, but these detailed ideas of a slight change of these pr rules are quite difficult to explain... and im still at work and writing this text along the way

And again:
this critisim should be meant constructivly.

THX

[DivS-konti]

I see that slightly different. Spawning in an APC is a great invention! And it's even realistic. According to the game: nobody knows how much ppl are sitting in an APC. Cause of that it's realistic to let ppl spawn there. Even if 20 ppl spawn out of it. I like that solution much! The only problem which occurs while using these spawnpoints is the turret-seat. You spawn there, you die there - that's not very lucky. And it's just bad luck if s.o. uses the APC's as attack vehicles only.

I remember yesterdays round of gulf of oman I was SL on the usmc side. I never placed a RP the whole round!!! We just spawned at the APCs and won that round pretty fast! That was awesome!

The spawnpoints: Maybe a SL throws a colored smoke granade. The smoke should be visible to all players on the server. The friendly players can "spawn" there with parachutes. Then the smoke fades away after maybe 3 or 5 minutes. What you think about that? It's nothing else than the rallyepoints - coz the rallyepoints are visible to all players too. But it's easier to use ...and maybe more difficult to realize ingame. Then it might be difficult to spawn at decent locations in cities too. But yes, it's realistic to spawn outside the frontlines!!!
I always try to spawn off the front. Coz I got a pretty much bigger chance to stay alive for some minutes. ...realistic!
But this means that the kit-requesting system needs to be altered...

According to the kit-limits: I'd like to choose my type of weapon before I spawn. The pick-up kits are another story. Personally I like them very much!

Salute


konti

[Deer]

According to the kit-limits: I'd like to choose my type of weapon before I spawn. The pick-up kits are another story. Personally I like them very much!

Afaik, noone has figured many ways to limit the kits, surely if it would have been figured out how to do that, it would be in game already (choosing limited kits before spawning that is)

logically and in theory even i know nothing about coding, maybe it could be made so that before you spawn, you can choose the limited kit, when you actually spawn, you would spawn with non-limited kit on you, but the limited kit you chose, would be automaticly requested under you(and maybe your client automaticly presses G to pick it up after 0,5 seconds from spawning).
Technically the mainbases flags kit request radius would "cover" whole map. When you die with that limited kit, the kit "timetolive" timer would be as long as your respawn timer so you will get it again when you respawn, so if someone who died just before you and is spawning before you, and chooses your limited kit, will spawn and automaticly requests the kit but it wont spawn because "i dont have more of those kits - QM". Ofc it should be informed which kits are available in the screen where you choose what kit you want to spawn. But is it really worth the work and make the kit system better after all ?

[DivS-konti]

It is possible

[AfterDune]

I'm pretty sure it's possible, but I'd rather not go there. The kit limiting system is pretty well thought up, if you ask me. You have to do something in order to get a limited kit. Getting it before you spawn is really a huge step backwards.

But that's just my humble opinion .

[DivS-konti]

A step backwards according to the complexity, yes. But nevermind that! The effects are the same

EDIT: OK, maybe the players may request "special kits" at the APC's and friendly flags?!!

[T0M@field]

jepp, u r right konti:
the kit limitation is working very well without a RP where everone has to ask for a kit after he spawned.
why should everything be so complicated and stressy if theres a better way.
a way where its hard to play but easier to understand!

AfterDune:
Why do u think that a kit request is better to handle after someone has spawned?
Cause u can get a at-kit or a aa-kit when its getting hot?

[DivS-konti]

Ofc it should be informed which kits are available in the screen where you choose what kit you want to spawn. But is it really worth the work and make the kit system better after all ?

Yes sure, the player needs to be informed of that by the game. That's not the problem! Just leave the QM and think about other solutions. Maybe just a plain msg in the upper screen saying: That kit is already in use, or something

When you die with that limited kit, the kit "timetolive" timer would be as long as your respawn timer so you will get it again when you respawn, so if someone who died just before you and is spawning before you, and chooses your limited kit, will spawn and automaticly requests the kit but it wont spawn

So let's edit the time-to-live attribute (shorter than player-respawn-timer)

Limited kits should not be like some personal kits of the fastest clickers. Everyone on the same side should be able to grab it at least once in a round!

[Deer]

Well yes that would be the problem, and if its possible for others to take your kit while you are dead, you still choose the kit and respawn and auto request it but you wont get it because someone else took it while you were dead, that would confuse ppls, and dunno if its technically possible to inform the player that his kit was taken before he spawned so he could choose some other kit instead..

[AfterDune]

T0M@field']AfterDune:
Why do u think that a kit request is better to handle after someone has spawned?
Cause u can get a at-kit or a aa-kit when its getting hot?

Because, I think you need to do something to get a special kit. And I think getting special kits before you even spawn sounds like Vanilla, which is something PR needs to get away from as far as possible. Adding this suggestion really is a step in the wrong direction if you ask me.

For example, the HAT-kit you can only get from supply drops or at main base. There are good reasons for that. I really don't want anyone to be able to get it right before they spawn into the heart of battle and take out a very well placed tank with it.

Another thing, which may not apply to you, but will to lots of others; they pick special kits they wouldn't have picked up when they needed to do something for it. People get lazy when a special kit can be selected from the spawn-screen. And PR is not about being lazy at all.

[Deer]

Aye that would be the bad side that you could bring the superior heavy AT kit anywhere you spawn, however, if there is only 1 heavy AT kit available for whole team, it most probably will be in use all the time and you wont get it right away when you need it, that way the heavy AT kit user would be one of most important soldiers in the team what others are calling to help them.

Tbh i like the idea that you would be ordered to use this weapon, nothing else, that is your job and your only job, other players got their own gear and jobs to do.

[DivS-konti]

dunno if its technically possible to inform the player that his kit was taken before he spawned so he could choose some other kit instead..

...just drop a line in the upper left corner of the hud

I know what ur aiming at! Believe me it is possible! I've seen that on screenies of another mod.

So if the kit is issued already, the player who just respawns will get a standard-weapon and the msg on his/her screen. Where's the problem? He/she can try to get it again at friendly flags or at the APC's.
It's the same like now! If s.o. got that kit, noone can have it too.

Another thingy is that now you can only ask for those kits at your squads' specific RP. But those RPs are sometimes very hard to locate! Yes you see them on the minimap, but that means nothing! The symbol on the minimap just shows a radius in which the RP is somewhere located... confusing!

Because, I think you need to do something to get a special kit.

Yes true. My suggestion is about searching the weapons. That's something to do, too! The HAT f.e. is a very special kit. It's the mappers or coders duty to limit them. Of coz we don't want 20 ppl with HAT!!!

[Deer]

...just drop a line in the upper left corner of the hud

He/she can try to get it again at friendly flags or at the APC's.
It's the same like now! If s.o. got that kit, noone can have it too.

The thing is what i suggested means that you could technically request kits anywhere in the map, so the options for requesting kit while you are alive, would need to be removed(or made so that client can automaticly use em but player cant, to be specific).

And ye, some superior kits like heavy AT kit could be made pickup kits what you dont request to limit the availability of bringing such kit very fastly there where tank is doing some rape.

[DivS-konti]

Ok, I've seen that on screens of FH2. But that should not be the only solution for all mods! Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that one mod is better than the other! Definitively not!!!

It works like this: there is a button on the lower right corner where you have to click "okay" when ur choosing the kits. In FH2 that buttons transforms into "kit not available" and due to that you can't spawn ...you have to choose another kit to be able to click "okay". You know what I mean?

This solution is VERY easy to understand! There is no need to explain something! PLayers can concentrate on the battle itself. That's why me and others like to have it more easily

It's not because FH presented us that feature.

[l|Bubba|l]

This solution is VERY easy to understand! There is no need to explain something! PLayers can concentrate on the battle itself. That's why me and others like to have it more easily

But they could spawn with every weapon right on the squadleader.

[AppleJuice4u2]

Deer']Aye that would be the bad side that you could bring the superior heavy AT kit anywhere you spawn, however, if there is only 1 heavy AT kit available for whole team, it most probably will be in use all the time and you wont get it right away when you need it, that way the heavy AT kit user would be one of most important soldiers in the team what others are calling to help them.

Tbh i like the idea that you would be ordered to use this weapon, nothing else, that is your job and your only job, other players got their own gear and jobs to do.

See thats what iv been following the BF genre for the opposite reason. I like the fact i can melt face in my tank then respawn and take a sniper rifle. If i was to be tuck with something the whole round it'd be gay, i went 86 and 2 on Oil Fields with an m40 and Abrams without camping. its easy enough to pwn in a tank lets not make it easier mkay

[DivS-konti]

Yes, that's another story I suppose. Dunno, somehow I like it, somehow I hate it

Ppl need spawnpoints, that's a fact. But spawning at APCs is way more realistic and the better solution. In my eyes...
Arrrr there occurs another problem. The teamplay-squad factor. Whooo, this isn't that easy to solve. But that's why a discussion is needed!

[Deer]

See thats what iv been following the BF genre for the opposite reason. I like the fact i can melt face in my tank then respawn and take a sniper rifle. If i was to be tuck with something the whole round it'd be gay, i went 86 and 2 on Oil Fields with an m40 and Abrams without camping. its easy enough to pwn in a tank lets not make it easier mkay

Didnt mean that you are stuck with the kit whole round, its just that if there is only 1 heavy AT kit available, it would be pretty important kit to have, and the person who posseses the kit would have very important job to help others, not running around like HE wants to. You could choose other kit when you die. It was just followup thoughts from "limiting HAT kits to 1 and the person who has got it, would have it as long as he wants to"-though