PRMM should be called Sniper Wars mod

TweedleDee · Post by **TweedleDee** » 2005-11-20 22:50

i really like this mod, but when half the team on both sides are snipers, i think its a little rediculous. Can i recommend limiting the sniper class to only one or 2 per team, by having sniper kits spawn at good sniper locations or at the main base, just like in Forgotten hope mod for bf1942. that really increased game play for fhmod, and i think it would help prmm alot too. thanks

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2005-11-20 22:53

I'm guessing they'll have a limited number of snipers per team by the time the full mod comes out

CobraPhantom · Post by **CobraPhantom** » 2005-11-20 22:54

I have noticed this as well, too many snipers, too few people. Yes there will possibily be class restrictions or spawnable weapon kits.

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2005-11-20 23:02

Isnt the solution rather obvious? Improve the other weapons to even more "realistic" specs.

I cant for the life of me imagine a real M16 on a 3 round burst would spread them out so much it can hardly place 1 of them on a man size target at 20 meter range from an aimed and crouched position.

Or what about the machineguns, that recoil DOWN in so unpredictable manners its hard to shoot with them. I didnt think that was physically possible.

But granted, I'm not a military expert, I've never fired a weapon in my life.

Sorry, I wanted to edit my own post and somehow clicked on yours. I didn't change anything.

-Artnez.

Artnez · Post by **Artnez** » 2005-11-21 02:26

In my opinion, limiting the sniper classes will only create more problems. The BF franchise shines when a team can be more effective by creating their own squad loadouts and structures.

The sniper class is extremely ineffective when in small bunches. If your entire team consists of snipers, your team will lose. Therefore, there is nothing wrong with this.

This happens for every game and every mod since the history of FPS games. If there's a sniper class, 80% of the players start out playing sniper until they get bored.

The majority of these people don't know how to use the class properly anyhow, so they will get killed enough to the point when they will just give up and move on.

Give it time.

EDIT: You also don't want to force people to play the way you do. If you have a more enjoyable exprience while there is no sniper class, others have more enjoyable expriences when there is a sniper class. You can't stop people from picking the class that they like.

I recommend you stick around for a bit until someone jumpstarts a PR tournament, where organized gameplay is king.

TweedleDee · Post by **TweedleDee** » 2005-11-21 02:38

Artnez, i understand what u are saying, but i dont want to be on the losing team cause half my team are noob snipers..... i might join the tournament and its gonna be a blast, but for now all my playing is on pubs, and most people are going to play most of the time on pubs..... anyhow, obviously u never played forgottenhope which is the best mod ever, i can't wait till it comes out for bf2. anyways, everything in that mod is balanced so well that the game play is excellent(even though its on an outdated engine), especially the sniper class. in the begining of the round people race to the sniper kits, cause the ones who have them are gonna rack up the kills.... which is the way it should be.. and since this mod focuses on realism, limiting the sniper class should be a good thing, because everyone in a real war are not snipers....... i dont want to force people to play the way i do, i never said to take the sniper class out completly, that would be dumb. im just thinking about better gameplay and more fun for everyone as a whole. who cares about the bf franchise and the ability to pick who ever u want to be... EA sux, isnt that why we are all playing this mod in the first place?

Post by **Happy** » 2005-11-21 03:23

I believe I heard about a mod actually getting the bipod to work. Something DICE said was impossible on the engine.

Noetheinner · Post by **Noetheinner** » 2005-11-21 03:36

hey there tweedleDee, I've played with you on that battlerecorder server. you got some great teamwork skillz man. You and TweedleDum too. I remember playing on Karkand, Me the lone Commander/sniper on the village flag (upper left flag) and you and 10 of your friends coming to take it. You guys were pinned down by a tank for a bit at the bottom of the street, but made it past him to me, who you killed, and I got one of ya'll with a grenade after death. Then I dropped arty on ya'll after I respawned and got another one of you with a claymore, then me and another guy killed each other on the roof of that building with the machine gun at the flag. I like your style of gameplay man. Snoop and poop.

{GD}geogob · Post by **{GD}geogob** » 2005-11-21 04:33

The problem with the sniper rifles is not that too many players can use them. Is that they don't have half the disadvantages of their real-life counterparts.

You can't just remove the ridiculous fire cone in BF2 and hope to have a realistic sniper rifle. Been there, done that...

If you don't want full divisions of sniper squads, I would suggest trying to find out why you don't have that in real-life and implement it. If the the only answer you can find is "cost", then go ahead with class restriction. But I bet that won't be the first answer. Then hop! To work... finding a way to implement those limitation is probably the hardest and the best part of making a mod that is based on realism.

=BONG=Happy wrote:I believe I heard about a mod actually getting the bipod to work. Something DICE said was impossible on the engine.

I heared it was impossible for the UT engine too. Still... I saw it done on the 2003/2004 engine. Even for UT (1999) i have a half-working alpha of bipod code on my HD. I mostly had to work out replication issues (which is always a nightmare).

I'm bet someone can find a way out to have working bipods... then again, I wouldn't have chosen this engine for a new mod... and modability is among the main reasons. It would be very sad if it turned out impossible to do.

Artnez · Post by **Artnez** » 2005-11-21 05:57

TweedleDee wrote:Artnez, i understand what u are saying, but i dont want to be on the losing team cause half my team are noob snipers..... i might join the tournament and its gonna be a blast, but for now all my playing is on pubs, and most people are going to play most of the time on pubs..... anyhow, obviously u never played forgottenhope which is the best mod ever, i can't wait till it comes out for bf2. anyways, everything in that mod is balanced so well that the game play is excellent(even though its on an outdated engine), especially the sniper class. in the begining of the round people race to the sniper kits, cause the ones who have them are gonna rack up the kills.... which is the way it should be.. and since this mod focuses on realism, limiting the sniper class should be a good thing, because everyone in a real war are not snipers....... i dont want to force people to play the way i do, i never said to take the sniper class out completly, that would be dumb. im just thinking about better gameplay and more fun for everyone as a whole. who cares about the bf franchise and the ability to pick who ever u want to be... EA sux, isnt that why we are all playing this mod in the first place?

I agree with you 100%, this would be the idea solution only if people were willing to play another class. Me? I would play any class, as long as we get the job done. I get enjoyment out of them all.

You did get me thinking though (I have played FH for BF1942) and they really did do it very well. Maybe you're right, putting sniper kits as pickup kits would be a better solution. (That's right I backed down. GRB, you did not see this post.)

I dunno, we'll have to wait and see what the devs decide. They came through very well so far and increased the gameplay enormously.

Post by **IRONxMortlock** » 2005-11-21 08:11

Hi Tweedledee,

I've also seen you and your mate dum online several times now.

solodude23 wrote: More has to be done with innaccuracy + stances and movement.

I agree and also agree with Tweedledee in that the number of snipers per team should be limited. IMO it's hardly realistic to have more than half of your team playing as snipers and when it occurs it tends to force people to play a run and gun style of gameplay as the second they stop moving they are sniped.

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2005-11-21 09:20

'[R-PUB wrote:IRONxMortlock']I agree and also agree with Tweedledee in that the number of snipers per team should be limited. IMO it's hardly realistic to have more than half of your team playing as snipers and when it occurs it tends to force people to play a run and gun style of gameplay as the second they stop moving they are sniped.

Joint Operations had that problem... Though the JO sniper rifles where like 100x as powerfull as the BF2 sniper rifles (even in PRMM), heh.

It might not be very fun, but the best way is probably to limit the amount of people that can pick it, yes. But if that happens, I'd like to see more classes, not only better weapons across the board. Yes I give the dev team alot to worry about

See it this way, the BF2 classes are 1, 2, 3, etc. What about the guys that want to be 2.5? Not really a sniper, but want a longer range rifle at the cost of something else (no grenades, no claymores, no silenced pistol, little ammo, whatever). BFV did this great, and snipers werent that common at all (even compared to BF1942).

For example, I want to be a squad marksman instead of a full blown sniper most of the time. I dont want camouflage: I'm gonna move alot. I dont want claymores: I want to carry more rifle or pistol rounds. And instead of a rifle like the M24, I want something like the SR-25 with a 4x scope and more in the line of G36C accuracy.

Point being: The sniper class can be strong, just give options for those that dont want to be 100% snipers. Imo there are MANY people like this, that pick the sniper class out of lack of options. This of course goes for other classes too! Maybe that sniper in the tower would have picked an engineer if he had been given a rifle?

Or I could be completely wrong, lol

Lifetaker · Post by **Lifetaker** » 2005-11-21 10:07

Most of the time I join a server, there's only me and a couple other guys on it. It's pretty fun to play sniper vs sniper until some more people join, but it's true, it does get pretty ridiculous when there's more than two snipers per side. I've noticed what usually remedies this is hopping in an armored vehicle. Not much you can do to it with a rifle. They'll change class after you blow them up a couple of times.

Noetheinner · Post by **Noetheinner** » 2005-11-21 14:59

and there you go folks! a balance to the sniper! that and a good commander who can spot/arty his butt to oblivion!

Enforcer1975 · Post by **Enforcer1975** » 2005-11-21 15:40

Give us the sharpshooter class!!!!

Post by **Wolfmaster** » 2005-11-21 16:29

a temporary solution for this comes in the form of AAS, which as far as i know limites the number of snipers per team.

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2005-11-21 16:58

'[R-PUB wrote:Wolfmaster']a temporary solution for this comes in the form of AAS, which as far as i know limites the number of snipers per team.

I havent seen any kind of limitation to it. Havent really gotten to play much AAS though, so few people...

Post by **Wolfmaster** » 2005-11-21 17:16

hmm... i thought it did... but well, i could be wrong.