sekiryu wrote:Eugene Stoner=civilian. The military didn't even want it at first.
John Moses Browning=civilian
Kevlar was discovered by a civilian company
John C. Garand=civilian
Ronnie Barrett=civilian
Nomex was discovered by the same company that discovered Kevlar
Yes, the M16 is shit as a combat weapon, and the M4 is worse (although most soldiers adamantly deny that fact), but Stoner's other designs, like the AR18, are not (G36 and MP7 use gas systems based off of the AR18 ). You still have a civilian to thank for that Kevlar that might save your life, the M2HB, the hydration pack on your back, and the 1911 (if you're lucky enough to have that isntead of the M9). Soldiers in WWII had a civilian to thank for the 1911, BAR, and Garand.
I don't recall combat affairs being involved. Just having the common sense to know that hot, carbon fouled gasses going straight into the receiver of a firearm is bad, and that ACU doesn't work for shit anywhere other than a desert, a concrete wall, and an antique sofa.
Civilian = person whom has NEVER EVER SERVED IN THE MILITARY.
Veteran = person whom HAS SEVERED IN THE MILITARY.
You = retarded
Good job at failing. Of the people you listed not a single one 'invented' a weapon solely for the purpose of building one, with the exception of Barret, which is ironicly a great piece of equipment, the exception to the rule. Every single other piece of equipment was commisioned by the Government with design specs and requirements. If you had reading comprehension skills you would have seen where I mentioned that.
Next, showing your lack of military knowledge, the M4 is better than the M16, period. Shorter, lighter. Two things important in CQB operations which is what the entire point of infantry combat is. It has the same direct gas system however, which is a failure on many levels. Gas blowpack is a perfectly fine way to cycle the bolt, so long as there is a piston involved (ala AK-47, et al other assault rifle/machine guns worth a damn). That is the single biggest cause of fouling in a modern M16/m4. Luckily it wasn't a open bolt design, such as the M249/M240b, which causes even more fuck ups because, well, if you can't tell what a open bolt design is and why it fails on many levels, I refer to my previous statements.
You mention Kevlar like it was solely a civilian endevor made with the purpose of being a bullet proof piece of equipment. It was intended for tires and until the Army got ahold of it to test it in conditions civilians never would think of (because they never had combat experiences), it would never have been adopted. Same reason dragon skin armor hasn't been adopted yet, because the civilians in charge test it under normal conditions (same with the civilian news agency, noticing a pattern yet?) and it fails under actual combat conditions.
Now, if you want, by all means, list all the wonderful things 'invented' by civilians under no military requirements or designs. Then, go list all the things throughout history that the military has been responsible for. Have fun with that.
Now, when we talk about things on internet forums in regards to military topics, it isn't about who the fuck invented the M2 .50 cal. Its what are the effects of the 50 cal, how accurate is it under full auto, hows it used in combat, etc. Alllll things civilians, for god knows what reason, seem to think they have a fucking clue about, which, they don't. Here's an example:
Idiot civilian number 1: The 5.56mm round sucks its too small to hurt
Idiot civilian number 2: No it doesn't, it causes massive trauma from tumbling inside a target see, heres the wikipedia link to prove I'm right (random youtube video etc)
They are both wrong, both idiots. The #1 is right, the current 5.56mm round does, indeed, suck ***, but not for the reasons he thinks it does. The tumbling argument pisses me off to the point of not being able to talk about it on this forums, needless to say hes wrong and should shoot himself in the face for saying so.
Now I can say the 5.56mm round sucks because I've put many of them into human beings and seen the lack of effectiveness. The reason WHY it sucks isn't so important as the fact, that beyond all question, I know it does because I've actually used it.
THOSE are the types of arguements civilians continue to fail at, and always will. Not their fault they do, they don't have the actual experience to know better. But they CAN help the dumbass attitude you have and realize that you don't know wtf you are talking about when it comes to combat affairs and stfu when the experienced folks start talking.
Another great example, you complaining about the ACU's. The ACU's blend in terrific against night vision optics, one of their main design features. As a soldier you would also complain about the velco wearing out, the pin on badges being retarded, lack of ventilation, the crotch ripping far to easily, and the fact that the chest pockets are angled wrong. For everything else, you are correct. If you think the color scheme of the ACU however is anything other than a POLITICAL fuck up, you are even more stupid than I thought, which is sad. 1 color = 1 color for everything = cheaper and the senator whose state gets the contract makes more money for his people.
Yes I know more than you do on soldiering topics. You can probably quote more information from memory, good for you. But guess what? 2 seconds on googling and I have access to the information as well. There is no search engine in the world that gives you access to the information I have.
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