What is Qinling?

[robbo]

Well only one has ever been destroyed by another Challenger 2, another with held 70 RPGs and was able to fight them off and return for repairs

[eddie]

You read that on Wiki didn't you? I seriously doubt that's true.

[robbo]

"You read that on Wiki didn't you? I seriously doubt that's true."

No, it was on a documentary i was watching ive read it up on the net a few times also.

[El_Vikingo]

I read on the wiki, that I read the wiki.... but wait, if wiki isn't reliable, then how would I be reading the wiki if I hven't read the wiki because it's not reliable....WTF?!?!

[Outlawz7]

Becuase they can only rely on Wiki...

[Masaq]

Oh, its a map? I thought it was the new Project Reality Panda
<Picture of panda, asssuming the position for a cavity search/yet another unsucessful attempt to make baby pandas>

What a great idea for a new civillian class on this map! Pandas!

British troops would loose 200 tickets for every panda they shot... not only would you be giving people more realistic combat but also an important lesson in conservation!

[AtlantaFalcons]

Support PFP:

[{WaRrioR}]

Cool pic man.

[A_COLOHAN]

Cant wait to give the version a go.

[Rhino]

Cant wait to give the version a go.

v0.7 is a long way off yet (the version that qinling is in), v0.6 is the one comming out soon

[Jaymz]

GeZe']Haha, that reminds me of when this Vietnamese girl was annoying a British kid at my school years ago.

She kept saying "Do you enjoy the smell of tea in the morning?" over and over again.

Until he finally got pissed and said:

"Do you enjoy the smell of napalm in the morning?"

That shut her up.

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool, omfg im in stiches.......

[Viper5]

Griffon2-6']


Prove it.

LMAO

*Puts on Enrique Iglesias accent*

Griffon, you can be my hero baby.

[Griffon2-6]

Well only one has ever been destroyed by another Challenger 2, another with held 70 RPGs and was able to fight them off and return for repairs

How does that prove that it is better than the T90 or the ZTZ-99?

[PlayPR!]

GeZe']Haha, that reminds me of when this Vietnamese girl was annoying a British kid at my school years ago.

She kept saying "Do you enjoy the smell of tea in the morning?" over and over again.

Until he finally got pissed and said:

"Do you enjoy the smell of napalm in the morning?"

That shut her up.

Saved...

Sorry, continue....

Awsome looking map, and Challenger II By the way...

[robbo]

Griffon2-6']How does that prove that it is better than the T90 or the ZTZ-99?

I dont understand why you all brown nose the ZTZ-99 it isnt even in full production and has never had an RPG fired in anger at it,its never been to a real combat theater.
The T90 with the latest Russian penetrator (600mm) wouldn't get through the frontal amour of the Challenger or Abrams when the challenger fires back or Abrams with either the M289A3 or the CHARM3 which would obliterate the T90s amour and cause the ammo in the carousel to explode completely destroying the tank and most likely killing the crew.

[Bob_Marley]

Just because it hasn't been used in a real combat theater doesn't mean that it isn't a good tank. You could argue the same thing for the Challenger. What has its service in Iraq proven? That its better than tanks and anti-tank weapons designed 30 years or more before it was designed?

Also, if the ammo in the T-90 were to explode, it would be the rounds stored outside the carousel that would cause it to go up, not those in it. They're actually quite well protected.

In addition, the T-90 doesn't depend on its SABOT rounds to defeat enemy tanks. It also has ammunition like the 3BK29M triple charge HEAT round with a claimed penetration of 800mm or the 9M119M Reflex ATGM, with a maximum range of 5000m and claimed penetration of 900mm, which allows the T-90 to engage the Challenger from outside of the latter's range. Considering it has been noted that the RPG-29 has penetrated the frontal armor of the Challenger 2, with its claimed penetration of 750mm, the 9M119M Reflex could put the Challenger 2 in real trouble with no capability to effectivly hit back.

[robbo]

If these claims you say of the new Russian ammo are true, then im sure when the T90 comes into service the MOD will recognise this and update or change the Challengers Ammunition rounds.

Do you have proof of the RPG-26 incident without solid proof i dont believe you.

Also the Challenger 2 is loosing its Rifled barrel in favor for the L55 main gun which will be able to use the American rounds which will be superior to the Russian rounds.

[Bob_Marley]

"MOD Kept Failure of Best Tank Quiet" Sunday Telegraph 13 May 2007

One of the British Army's Challenger 2 tanks was pierced by an Iraqi insurgent missile more than eight months earlier than the Government has previously admitted.

The Ministry of Defence had claimed that an attack last month that breached a tank's armour was the first of its kind in four years of war in Iraq. But another Challenger 2 was pierced by a powerful rocket-propelled grenade in August last year during an attack that blew off part of a soldier's foot and injured several others.

The injured soldier's family has accused the Government of a cover-up and demanded to know why soldiers manning Challenger 2 tanks had not been warned of the failings with the tank's armour.

Liam Fox, the shadow defence secretary, said he would challenge the government on why the Ministry of Defence (MOD) had apparently misled the public over the timing of the first incident in which the hugely robust defences of the Challenger had been breached.

He said: "Obviously, no armour is indestructible and there is no doubt that the insurgents have increasingly sophisticated technology but it is important in maintaining public confidence that the MOD and the Government tell the truth to the -British public."

The Challenger 2 is reputed to be one of the most sophisticated tanks in the world and those used in Iraq by the British Army are built with Dorchester armour, the composition of which is top secret. The tank is also fitted with explosive reactive armour (ERA) at its front that should deflect any weapon fired at its hull.

The MOD has finally confirmed that the tank's armour was breached last August and has said that an investigation was conducted to discover why the ERA appears to have failed. However, the department refused to comment on its findings, citing security reasons.

In the August attack, which occurred during an operation to arrest a leading insurgent in the town of al-Amarah, in southern Iraq, the Challenger was damaged when a Russian-made rocket-propelled grenade, known as an RPG-29, defeated the ERA and penetrated the driver's cabin.

The RPG-29 is a much more powerful weapon than the common type regularly used by insurgents to attack British troops. It is specifically designed to penetrate tank armour, although this is the first occasion on which it has managed to damage a Challenger.

During the attack Trooper Sean Chance, a 20-year-old serving with the Queen's Royal Hussars, lost half of his left foot; two other crew members were injured.

The unit's commander described the moment the tank was hit by the missile in a letter he wrote to the wounded soldier in March. The officer wrote: "I recall seeing it (the RPG-29 being fired) and thinking, 'Oh Christ, that's bad.'

"As it slammed into the hull, I was picked up by the shock wave of the blast and thrown against the back wall of the turret. The explosion singed my eyebrows and burnt my face slightly. The tank was full of acrid smoke and fumes. I became aware of you screaming, 'I'm hit, I'm hit. My foot's off.'

"Daz (another crew member) and I looked at each other in slight disbelief - after all, what could possibly breach a CR2's (Challenger's) armour?"

Tpr Chance's mother Kay, 49, from Bromsgrove, Worcestershire, said her son had been told that the Challenger was the best in the world and essentially impenetrable to any weapons the insurgents possessed.

She said: "Sean often told me he felt totally safe because he was in the best tank in the world. But we now know that is not the case. The Government has covered it up.

"If I was the mother of the poor soldier who lost his legs last month I would be horrified to think that an earlier attack like this had happened before but none of the soldiers were told about it."

His brother Luke said that Tpr Chance had been "abandoned" by the Army following his injury. He said: "Sean has been forgotten about. He hasn't received his Iraq medal. He's been told he is going to be medically discharged because of his injury but no one has told him when and what sort of pension he might get. It's a disgrace."

A spokesman for the MOD said: "We have never claimed that the Challenger 2 is impenetrable. There is no question of a cover-up. Any suggestion that this was the first successful attack against a Challenger 2 tank was given in good faith based on the information available at the time.

"We would like to reassure the family that lessons were learnt from the incident last August and measures were taken to enhance the protection of our personnel."

On April 6, a Challenger was damaged by a roadside bomb in Basra. In that attack a soldier lost both his legs. Details of the incident were not made public until April 23, when

the MOD claimed: "This was the first successful attack on a Challenger 2. It's the first bomb to have damaged it."

Linky



And even with the L55, it still cant accurately engage out to 5000m. The T-90 still has the range advantage with its ATGMs. Factor in the T-90s Shorta-1 system (which buggers up range finders and what not) and its ERA, and it looks to be a pretty decent tank. Its also significantly lighter than the Challenger 2 (46.5 tons vs 62 tons)

[Rhino]

will you guys cut out the "my contry is better than yours" comments. no tank in the world is indistructible, and no every tank has its pros and cons. there will never be a perfect tank i very much dout and the CR2, T90, M1A2 are all no where near perfect, so quit your bickering or ill ban you for afew days!

[Bob_Marley]

Right o.

Robbo, we shall settle this on the Hills of Quinling! Until then, no more shall be said!

So,



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