Wide Variety of Infantry Weapons

[Doedel]

This idea comes from two places. BF:V and BF2:SF.

The idea is basically to "manipulate" the now multi-tier unlock system to create classes that are not limited to a single weapon combination but rather have each class have a variety of weapon combination options. Now, this could run into trouble, because I haven't got a clear answer anywhere about whether or not unlocks can be side-specific, and this almost completely depends on that. However if there is a way to make unlocks side specific I think this'd be the best way to do it.

Like I said, the basic idea is to use the unlock system to give "custom loadout ability" to all classes, by first making several unlocks per kit, and arming each with a variety of weapons, and secondly by auto-unlocking all kits. Therefore, when soldiers bring up their spawn menu, they will not only have an M16A2 w/ M203 launcher, smoke grenades, a pistol and a knife to choose from as assault; they could be able to choose other weapon configs, such as an M4 and frag grenades, thermite 'nades, etc. Here's a slight example:

US Assault Class combinations could include the following weapons in whatever combination:

M16A2, M203, Frag grenades, Smoke grenades, Thermite grenades (BTW I would really like to see thermite grenades included, as a slight alternative to C4. They should do lots of damage to vehicles if explodes on/underneath them, and also do some damage against enemy Commander objects, though not as much as C4), M4 Carbine, Shotguns;

US Sniper Class could have the following weapons in their combinations:

M24, M95 Barrett, Squad Advanced Marksman Rifle (SAMR), Squad Designated Marksman Rifle (SDMR), PSG-1, thermite grenades, claymores(both boobytrap and clacker types), smoke grenades, target designator of some sort (ie, if possible, a smoke grenade with a very obvious colour, that can stick to things, so a sniper could run up to some enemy tank, stick the designator on it, pop it, and everyone will be able to see a plume of purple smoke, or red smoke, or whatever);

SpecOps Class could have the following weapons:

M4 Carbine (with or without M203), CAR-15, MP-5K, XM8, Thermite nades, C4, claymores, smoke/signal nades, etc;

"Insurgent/Rebel" AT class:

RPG-2, RPG-7, "IED" (could have two types; one that is detonated remotely by someone watching, or one with a timer. they should look like something inconspicious, like a rock, or just plain invisible), "suicide vest" (self explanatory -- merely a detonator that, when pressed, will detonate the poor fella, more effective than a suicide buggy!) etc;

Engineer:

Shotgun, M16A2, M4, MP-5, demolition charges (non-sticky, very powerful, for blowing bridges, commander stuff), thermite nades, frag/HE nades, etc

You get the drift. It was actually kind of pointless of me to go through a big list of stuff. I'm sure you DEV's are able to come up with your own cool weapon combos. I listed possibilities because it was FUN!

Anyway, you get the basic idea. Again, this will only really be plausible if you can limit unlocks to certain sides. I think it would add a lot of fun and variety to it all, and remain realistic (US soldiers don't really run around with G3's and PKM's now do they? And I doubt many Middle Eastern countries include G36C's in their arsenal) by keeping these weapons "down to earth" as opposed to simply throwing in cool weapons from around the world.

Lastly, if it isn't possible to limit unlocks to certain sides you could go ahead and do this anyway, and include ALL unlocks (ie, SpecOps unlocks would include both US, British, Russian, Chinese, Insurgent etc weapon combinations) but this might be a little over-used by zealous Americans wanting to run around with VSS's or Chinese players wanting an MP-5K. It is a possibility still, though, and would be interesting anyway, no?

[Heydude235]

Yes i was thinking about this. Now the main gun for the usa is the m-16. So here are may class with the unlocked wepons as a 2nd weapon choice

1.Spec ops - Make him look like the assault but not *EDITED*.
M4 carbine - M16a2
Pistol
2 hand gernades
knife
c4

2.Sniper
m29 - barret m99
smoke
knife

3.Assualt
M16a1 with gernade luancher - M16a2
knife
2 hand gernades

4.Medic

mp5 - m16a1
pistol
knife

5.support
m249 - saw
knife
2 hand gernades

6.at

tow-something else
hand gun
knife
2 hand gernades

[dawdler]

5.support
m249 - saw
knife
2 hand gernades

You know the M249 is the SAW...

But anyway, its a great idea to use the unlock button to flip between kit options. The really good part is that it leaves open for expansion, unlike a fixed set of multiple kits (like BFV). Its going to be difficult to keep each kit interesting though (not to mention averagely balanced). And of course making all the models and stuff for them.

[Mad Max]

M16A4's people! These are Marines! A2's are generally all upgraded by now, bar the odd few. There's no difference other than the rail attachment though from the A2.

Some maps (depending on size/type) should have snipers, others marksmen. Marksmen will be more suited for urban maps I'd guess. Snipers more for open maps.

Anyway, this is what I'd suggest:

SF.

Primary: M4A1 with Red-Dot Aimpoint, or FN SCAR
Secondary: Knife, Mk23 SOCOM
Rest the same

Assault:

M16A4 with ACOG X4, or M16A4 with M203
Rest the same

Medic:

M16A4
Rest the same

Sniper/Marksman:

M40A3 or M82A1 (could be an unlock)
M25 or M14 DMR? (M14 has a higher rate of fire and longer range as far as I know)

Support:

M249 SAW, unlock M240G

Engineer:

M870 Shotgun or M16A4 (shotgun could be useful in urban maps, M16 for more open maps)

Anti-Tank:

M16A4
Javelin AT or SMAW (Javelin for indirect fire, ie top down attack, SMAW for direct, ie flat trajectory shots)

I think squad leaders should have a choice too (as well as whatever kit they're using).

M16A4 with Reflex, M4A1 with Reflex

--------

Squad leaders tend to get a choice in reality, limited one but still a choice.

I think each class should also have a limited number per map, or whatever the admin sets for each map to avoid being over spammed by a certain class, like SF who are pretty powerful if you get up close to them compared to most others.

[BLind]

tbh i'd just like to see a alot more m16's for the usmc, maybe just different attachments to add more spice

[Beckwith]

while i dont agree with some of the choices of weapons you guys have said, the idea of using the toggle unlock button to create differently structured kits has been discussed before and was treated as a good idea by the devs so hopefully we see it

[YoJimbO]

For the "AT" class, maybe the secondary choice could be a Stinger Missile. (Yes, making it more of an "AA" class.) Just an idea.

[Cerberus]

Yeah, there should be alot more M16s and SAWs on USMC maps.

USMC Classes (primary weapons)

Rifleman

M16A2/A4

Automatic Rifleman

M249 Squad Automatic Weapon

Corpsman

M16A2

Sniper

M40A1/A3, M82 or M14DMR

Engineer

M4 (with ironsights)

Anti-Tank

AT4/SMAW

A majority of the team should consist of riflemen and automatic riflemen, for the sake of realism.



And maybe squad leaders could be given an SAMR, but in return, their supply of grenades and ammunition would be reduced, which take away some of the appeal

[Beckwith]

^ thats basically the BF2 loadout

except for the M4 engineer sniper and AT rockets

the reason they used the AT rocket they did was because the ones you mentioned are fire and forget where as the ones they used arent

[Mad Max]

I don't think the Marines use AT-4's by the way. They stick to Javelins and SMAW's mostly.

[Eddie Baker]

M24, M95 Barrett, Squad Advanced Marksman Rifle (SAMR), Squad Designated Marksman Rifle (SDMR), PSG-1,

That last one would go against your suggestion of keeping the variety of weapons "down to earth." The PSG-1 is not in US issue. It is way too expensive to be found in any military and most police agencies. GSG-9 might even be the only ones who actually have them in their inventory; whether or not they've used them is a different story. Otherwise, it is strictly a paper target rifle (except in Konami videogames).

I don't think the Marines use AT-4's by the way. They stick to Javelins and SMAW's mostly.

Eddie Baker']The Bofors AT-4 (US M136) is most definitely used by the Marines. However, it is not the weapon of a dedicated anti-armor specialist, it is a single-shot, disposable light anti-armor weapon. A few riflemen in each US squad may carry a single M136.

"Full-time" anti-armor specialists carry reusable ATGM launchers (Javelin), rocket launchers (SMAW [USMC]) or recoilless rifles (M3 RAAWS [75th Ranger Regiment]) and operate in teams of at least two.

This having been said, a single AT-4/M136 may be a kit option or random item in the rifleman class.

Anti-Tank:

M16A4
Javelin AT or SMAW (Javelin for indirect fire, ie top down attack, SMAW for direct, ie flat trajectory shots)

Eddie Baker']Rifles in the anti-armor class is not going to happen in PR in order to maintain decent gameplay and realism. Dedicated, man-portable anti-armor gunners rarely carry rifles or SMGs.

Marine Corps TO&E states that the gunner of a SMAW or Javelin team only carries the launcher, a sidearm (M9) and a couple of rounds, with the assistant gunner(s) carrying a rifle and additional rounds. Additional rounds may also be carried by riflemen of the unit to which the SMAW/Javelin team is attached. The Rangers use a 3 man team for the M3 RAAWS (84mm Carl Gustav recoilless rifle) and Javelin teams in their company weapons platoons.

I have seen precious few photos of SMAW/RAAWS or Javelin gunners carrying rifles in combat or training, and when they are, the rocket launcher or recoilless is disassembled and slung and the Javelin CLU is stowed in its carrying bag.

The old Soviet / Russian TO&E squad RPG-7 gunner in each motorised rifle squad carries only a sidearm, supported by an assistant gunner with a rifle.

Also, not everyone in the Marines has M16A4s, even among the infantry, who have been the first to get them. Combat support personnel (including Navy hospital corpsmen) still carry M16A2s. If everybody got new equipment when they should, it wouldn't be the military.

[Doedel]

Well like I said the exact weapon configuration and combination is up to you guys, the general idea was to show with some ingenuity, you could add a lot of customization to battles. Also I didn't know about the PSG-1. Not exactly well informed about US sniper weapons.

Anyway I REALLY really like this idea and I'm glad you guys have brought it up before.. it would be really, really fruggen sweet to look around and see guys with M16A2's and A4's, M-4's, and all other sorts of weapons that look like they belong in the US Army or USMC on the front, and have that added tactical aspect of multiple weapon configs kits.

[soldier_girl]

u need to take the right weapons that would best suit the environment u are gonna fight in. my weapon choice would be- M16
9mm handgun
WP grenades
Frag grenades
Combat knife-(to sneak up on them and slit their throats)

[billclo]

I definitely concur that some sort of customization would be really nice. Given that most infantry units (at least the deployed ones) are using flattop A4s/M4s and some sort of optic, give the player a choice of Aimpoint, Acog, maybe Eotech sights.

IF it were possible to customize as far down as ammo load, subject to weight limits, that'd be awesome. One player might decide to skip the pistol entirely, using it's weight (and ammo weight) for something else.

Something like in Soldier of Fortune, where you could pick your weapon (a given selection for each class would be best), ammo loadout (would like the option to pick X number of mags). Weight would have to be factored in, so as to penalize those who load up too heavily.

[Hitperson]

Will it be possible to add fully auto to the m16's that are in bf2 as well as the intended ones for the mod.

[Noetheinner]

no one uses the M16A1 anymore bub. Sorry.

[Mad Max]

I think some National Guard units still have them in their armouries, but they're not too common these days. More of a back up thing than something that's actually issued to them.

[Noetheinner]

Eddie Baker']This having been said, a single AT-4/M136 may be a kit option or random item in the rifleman class.

hmmm random item? That sounds interesting.