Overheating on Assault Rifle/SMGs

Post by **Bob_Marley** » 2007-07-14 09:10

1. The M16 gas system is poor. Doesn't matter if its an original XM16E1 or M16A4, its still rubbish.

2. While the round does fragment, the current generation is not the same as the one that the Vietnam era M16s fired. The M855 is designed to fight a conventional war against a conventional army (the Soviet army, to be precise) and as such is designed to penetrate body armor then enter tissue. This means that it does not fragment or tumble as easily as the old round making it a worse choice for the current wars where enemy combatants don't wear body armor. It still fragments, but not as much or as easily.

3. The HK416 replacing the M16 is now almost politically impossible. SOCOM has been banned for purchasing any more (which is why they have the SCAR) and the conventional units will be sticking with the M16 for the foreseeable due to the dissolving of the OICW programme.

4. 6.8mm rounds - we were right 60 years ago with the .280. And the Americans have been wrong. Twice (thrice if you count moving from M193 to M855).

$kelet0r · Post by **$kelet0r** » 2007-07-14 13:01

Which reflects terribly on how industry dictates the needs of the military. When you look at the current situation the M8/G36/416 HK weapon's technology is far superior to the AR15 platform and the British 7mm design (and hence modern 6.8mm) from the 1950s is a far superior solution to 5.56mm ammo.

Lampshade111 · Post by **Lampshade111** » 2007-07-14 16:36

It seems that there is another new option besides better 5.56x45mm ammo and 6.8x43mm.

http://www.defensereview.com/modules.ph ... le&sid=970

http://www.sskindustries.com/6_5mpc.htm

6.5x42mm MPC

sekiryu · Post by **sekiryu** » 2007-07-14 18:29

I just wished the HK416 looked a bit better.

Blasphemer!

3. The HK416 replacing the M16 is now almost politically impossible. SOCOM has been banned for purchasing any more (which is why they have the SCAR) and the conventional units will be sticking with the M16 for the foreseeable due to the dissolving of the OICW programme.

Let me take a guess--Colt have their hands in the pants of the DoD again?

knewman · Post by **knewman** » 2007-07-14 18:42

I'm not sure what to think. When I was playing 7 gates three of my squadies and I were trying to pick off some brits at river fort so we just kept emptying our mags in that direction nonstop. It scared em enough that they tried to run across the river

: and we had a marksman take care of the rest.

Post by **Jaymz** » 2007-07-14 19:20

Bob_Marley wrote: 2. While the round does fragment, the current generation is not the same as the one that the Vietnam era M16s fired. The M855 is designed to fight a conventional war against a conventional army (the Soviet army, to be precise) and as such is designed to penetrate body armor then enter tissue. This means that it does not fragment or tumble as easily as the old round making it a worse choice for the current wars where enemy combatants don't wear body armor. It still fragments, but not as much or as easily.

Bob, this is a really interesting point. If you can dig up some references it might give us a good reason to up the 5.56 damage a bit since in PR it's mostly conventional combat anyway.

AnRK · Post by **AnRK** » 2007-07-14 19:22

On a somewhat less technical note surely the overheating in game is representative of ceasing fire to make sure no barrel damage occurs whatsoever? When the barrel begins to warp for any weapon is entirely beyond my knowledge but I'd assume it's something soldiers were pretty weary of apart from in desperate circumstances.

sekiryu · Post by **sekiryu** » 2007-07-14 19:27

The HK416 has gone through 26,000 rounds on the same barrel, without too much loss in accuracy--But I don't think that's 26,000 rounds nonstop....

WNxKenwayy · Post by **WNxKenwayy** » 2007-07-15 05:16

Personally I'd replace it with the 7.62 round. Its the perfect round. The only complain is weight and mag capacity. Well with 30 round 7.62 mags I carried for the m14 takes care of one and not being a wuss takes care of the other. Hell a SAW gunner with a full load will weigh way more than a full load of 7.62.

But 6.8 would be a great compromise. So would taking the 5.56 round we use now (as pointed out earlier thank you) and trashing it. We aren't facing armies with body armor, the core penetrator is not needed.

sekiryu · Post by **sekiryu** » 2007-07-15 06:14

Or we could just ignore the Geneva convention like every other country and use JHPs.

I thought another drawback to the 7.62 was recoil?

{9thInf}GunnyMeyer · Post by **{9thInf}GunnyMeyer** » 2007-07-15 06:29

not if we are using it as a standard Assault Rifle. If we do it like that then we won't even need to worry about recoil cause all it means is you have to aim which as far as I know is done with the smaller caliber weapons too. As far as i've heard that issue of recoil is that they wanted a weapon that couild go full auto for more firepower and 7.62 gives too much recoil for effective auto fire. Now that our government has decided "Fuck full auto, give them burst" then we don't run into that problem. But this is just from my reading and I have a feeling someone will find a error somewhere in there so go ahead n point away, but politely please as I've been away for far too long lol.

Lampshade111 · Post by **Lampshade111** » 2007-07-15 07:33

Going back to the 7.62x51mm would really defeat most of the advantages assault rifles provide. I have got to say that I think many of the reports of the 5.56's lack of effectiveness are rather exaggerated. I hear so many mixed things about that ammo that I don't know what to believe.

A-10Warthog · Post by **A-10Warthog** » 2007-07-15 08:18

'[R-DEV wrote:Jaymz']Bob, this is a really interesting point. If you can dig up some references it might give us a good reason to up the 5.56 damage a bit since in PR it's mostly conventional combat anyway.

its true. they are designed to fragment on impact. thats why the .223 is so deadly

sekiryu · Post by **sekiryu** » 2007-07-15 17:20

Isn't the 7.62 round technically a Battle Rifle round, and not an Assault Rifle round, as it is not an intermediate cartridge?

Post by **Jaymz** » 2007-07-15 18:11

'[R-PUB wrote:A-10WarthogPilot']its true. they are designed to fragment on impact. thats why the .223 is so deadly

references please

TristanYockell · Post by **TristanYockell** » 2007-07-15 18:38

^ here is one diagram I found, I lost all of my charts on wounding ballistics for all the current military cartridges, check it out on this page, at the bottom.
Its the chart for the fragmenting characteristics for the M855 ball cartridge, says at a velocity of 3035fps.

http://www.frfrogspad.com/terminal.htm

I dont know how you guys would be able to go about simulating high damage infliction within short ranges but only moderate at long ranges?.
5.56mm rounds do not fragment after about 2600-2700 and only tumble according to alot of different sources.

WNxKenwayy · Post by **WNxKenwayy** » 2007-07-15 21:16

'[R-PUB wrote:A-10WarthogPilot']its true. they are designed to fragment on impact. thats why the .223 is so deadly

God grant me the strength not to (duke nuken voice) rip off your head and **** down your neck. I hate this argument, so, much. It was, it doesn't anymore. Die and burn. Anyone who says the current green tipped standard issue 5.56mm round is deadly, needs to go get shot by one. Unless you hit a vital organ (heart/brain/spine) its as worthless as you can get in a battlefield cartridge.

Viper5 · Post by **Viper5** » 2007-07-15 21:19

'[R-PUB wrote:A-10WarthogPilot']its true. they are designed to fragment on impact. thats why the .223 is so deadly

I'm sellin' tickets to witness the public executiuon of an R-PUB via an R-DIK!!! 20.00 USD per! Get em now before they run out!

This oughta be interesting...

Lampshade111 · Post by **Lampshade111** » 2007-07-15 21:41

WNxKenwayy wrote:God grant me the strength not to (duke nuken voice) rip off your head and **** down your neck. I hate this argument, so, much. It was, it doesn't anymore. Die and burn. Anyone who says the current green tipped standard issue 5.56mm round is deadly, needs to go get shot by one. Unless you hit a vital organ (heart/brain/spine) its as worthless as you can get in a battlefield cartridge.

BS. If it is worthless what the hell does that make any pistol cartridge? When well over 50 nations are using 5.56x45mm ammo something must have worked right.