Civilians in .6 final

Post by **Dunehunter** » 2007-07-17 17:11

Hm, yeah, some kind of specific civ-hunting class...would help with those guys who reach places which are hard to reach for the attackers (like that little overhang near the gate on desertstorm)

Anti-civ molotovs?

3===SPECTER===3 · Post by **3===SPECTER===3** » 2007-07-17 17:13

samfink wrote:how about restrict the civilian kit to certain maps? as in, maps where civilians being present are realistic, like Al basrah ( although how realistic, given the brits enjoy civilian support, is one to question)

agreed.

Civilians just dont seem to fit in on Al fallujah region(or desert storm.. if you call it that) Its mostly open desert with small villiges. I say on that particular map, make the civilian kit a limited kit and replace it with a engineer kit (so you can repair the gate). maps like Al Basrah the civilian kit will not be limited because it is a heavily populated area.

Red Halibut · Post by **Red Halibut** » 2007-07-17 17:13

Oi Kenwayy! Stop with the spoilers!

Long Bow · Post by **Long Bow** » 2007-07-17 17:20

I have yet to play the map in 0.6 final but I know the spot the original poster is talking about. The problem is that this is a huge choke point on the map. I can't really think of any other choke points like it on any other map? Let alone any insurgent map. I don't find civys to be to bad on Al Basrah yet.

Perhaps it is simply this situation on this map that brings out a flaw in the system?

Not to sure what the solution would be besides putting a dome of death around the choke point for civys?

Brummy · Post by **Brummy** » 2007-07-17 17:20

I just told someone: Please Don't Shoot Civilians, They are gaining tickets from it.

Guy: FVCK YOU! SHALL I KILLZ YOU TOO?? DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO!

Symplify · Post by **Symplify** » 2007-07-17 17:35

I definetely think civs should be a limited class. Maybe 10 allowed.

SiN|ScarFace · Post by **SiN|ScarFace** » 2007-07-17 18:41

Like rally points, people will figure it out.

WorfoSAUR · Post by **WorfoSAUR** » 2007-07-17 18:48

Wow.

I just got off a server and was amazed how many times I could/did say 'RTFM' The file is so big that I figured at least some people would read the manual to figure some of the basics out. So many people died because they didn't get pilot/crewman kits...

Wolfe · Post by **Wolfe** » 2007-07-17 19:34

That was after a long round of Desert Storm. The insurgents lined up civi's at the destructible wall and every time the U.S. blew it up, they killed 3-10 civs, giving the insurgents massive tickets.

I like the idea of civi's, but something more is needed other than ticket loss/gain and point/loss gain. There are always those who are either ignorant to the rules or who just don't care; either way they ruin the game round for both sides.

Maybe if the penalty for killing a civ was auto-suicide, people would learn. It's not a very "realistic" solution but it sure would be effective.

indigo|blade · Post by **indigo|blade** » 2007-07-17 20:31

Maybe limiting the amount of times a player can "use" the civilian class could be a solution? I'm not sure if it's possible, but if each player could only be a civilian once, for instance, players might change how they use the class.

This was just a quick thought before heading home from work, there's probably a quirk in it somewhere.

CAS_117 · Post by **CAS_117** » 2007-07-17 20:35

dunehunter wrote:Just to start, I absolutely love the idea of civilians, and they worked pretty well in the beta, where people noticed that when you shoot them, they get points, and you lose points. However, in the final version, a ton of people just don't seem to care!

I can understand people killing civilians by accident once in a while, it happens to me too (I just had a run that Fallujah map, about half the insurgent team was insurgent while we were trying to push through the gate. The commander called in artillery a couple of times, and people kept throwing grenades)

By the time we finally got through, the enemy had gained a couple of hundred points. Is there no way to get these people to understand that killing civilians is bad?

Right now, on a map with insurgents, my own team is often my worst enemy. It also takes the fun out of playing a civilian. In the past, you had to be careful if you wanted to trick them into shooting you, like popping your head out once in a while. Now you just have to stand in full view of a group of enemies for a moment, and one of them is just bound to shoot you.

The reason "civillians" get shot in PR is because they get shot in reality. If a civillian is running in front of an insurgent to absorb his bullets he would be shot, and no one would care. In Iraq, suspicious personell are apprehended. If an unarmed man is looking at marines with binoculars, and the marines are getting ambushed and hit by mortars, do you think that anyone would care if that man recieves a new hole to breath out of? No, not really. This idea of civillians trying to die is just retarded. That is the only word I can use to describe it, retarded. They safety of the troops comes first.

Apheirox · Post by **Apheirox** » 2007-07-17 20:42

I asked a while back to have the FAQ and wiki made more visible to new players. For example, a direct link to the FAQ below the download link under 'Files' would be a nice addition. Alas, it has not happened.

vanity · Post by **vanity** » 2007-07-17 21:14

indigo|blade wrote:Maybe limiting the amount of times a player can "use" the civilian class could be a solution? I'm not sure if it's possible, but if each player could only be a civilian once, for instance, players might change how they use the class.

This was just a quick thought before heading home from work, there's probably a quirk in it somewhere.

Wow I think that's the best idea so far. You can only spawn as a civilian so many times and after that, the class is locked to you.

So if people purposely die while playing a civi, there won't be many civis on the map for long. And it'll become a total free-fire zone.

joe · Post by **joe** » 2007-07-17 23:34

Agreed, thats the best solution I've heard. Limiting the numbers of times players could go civilian might make them go more carefully and if not then they wont be a civie for long!!

indigo|blade · Post by **indigo|blade** » 2007-07-18 14:35

DEVs is it even possible to lock a kit to a specific player after using it a certain number of times?

Post by **eggman** » 2007-07-18 14:40

Due to the way "bodies" work Civilians have to be a base kit. I am not aware of any way to limit the # times a player can spawn a kit from the base menu.

There are a few issues we'll look at with the Civilian class, but kinda expected them to be particularly problematic just after release

indigo|blade · Post by **indigo|blade** » 2007-07-18 14:52

Roger that egg, I knew the Civvies had to be a base kit so I duct taped a solution onto the fixed gameplay feature.

Good luck.

ZiRo · Post by **ZiRo** » 2007-07-18 15:17

Here is my suggestion. Read it entirely and consider how it would "play".

Make Civilians run a tiny bit faster than a soldier can run or the same speed(harder to catch).
REMOVE Spade.
REMOVE Wrench.

If a Civilian is killed by an enemy soldier, 2 tickets are given to the insergants to negate the death and an extra "follower" due to anger at Civilians being killed by troops. A 90 second respawn timer to the soldier that killed him.

If a Civilian is arrested, no ticket bonus to the Coalition team, Removing their ability to "scout" is enough of a benefit.

All these would make the civilian role more "civilian" than "rioter", making them more of a scout, less of a "lets try and get shot" role.

Removal of Spade and Wrench makes them a more neutral Role. But their ability to spot for insergants still enables them to have a wartime function.

Also give the civilian a chance to run away, preventing Coalition troops just arresting every civilian in sight, allowing civilians to serve a proper function. Which is to provide intelligence to insergants.

Post by **Deadfast** » 2007-07-18 15:45

And here comes mine:

Keep equipment same.
Instead of +10 tickets only +5 to Insurgent team per shot civilian.
When civilian is shot, the guy who did it will get +60 secs to spawn time (same as now), but civilian will get a normall spawn time and death will be counted into score.
This may work, because watching "Wait for respawn" for longer time every minute won't be too much of a fun. Also K

ratio 0:30 won't look good eighter.

Another, a bit complicated idea:
1. Civilian starts with green shirt. If he is shot, punishment will be same.
2. If he do some serious damage to (50%) someone by stones, his shirt will turn yellow and coalition foces will be able to shoot him to legs/arms and kill him this way. Killing this way will result into normall spawn time for civvie and no penality for opposing team (soldier, who killed him this way will get this kill counted into score). If will be killed another way, results will be same like killing green civvie.
3. If civilian will kill coalition soldier his shirt will turn red, and soldiers will be able to shoot to kill. Killing will result in same consequences like in 2.

Knifing civilian in any state (shirt collor) will give coalition forces +5 tickets (or any other number) and civvie will get longer spawn.

I know that this may not be possible to do, but it's just a suggestion.

Post by **eggman** » 2007-07-18 15:59

all solders run at the same speed. messed around with this as having different run speeds was the intent. is some stuff still left to experiment with there, but didn't have any luck with this previously. what we have is that Civvys can not run for as *long* as Soldiers.

can't change clothes without a respawn.

We'll think on some ideas after the release settles down a bit. But .. just so y'al know .. we're not intending Civvys to be a "gamey" element, we actually want to see them become a realistic representation of the challenges modern soldiers face when fighting against an insurgency. Right now they are obviously gamey and we'll work on that.