Civilians in .6 final

[BattleArena4]

IRL Civs who are non-compliant get pain compliance. If they attack without a weapon (rocks) defensive tactics can be used to neutralize them.

We need a butt of the gun attack.

[ZiRo]

eggman']all solders run at the same speed. messed around with this as having different run speeds was the intent. is some stuff still left to experiment with there, but didn't have any luck with this previously. what we have is that Civvys can not run for as *long* as Soldiers.

can't change clothes without a respawn.

We'll think on some ideas after the release settles down a bit. But .. just so y'al know .. we're not intending Civvys to be a "gamey" element, we actually want to see them become a realistic representation of the challenges modern soldiers face when fighting against an insurgency. Right now they are obviously gamey and we'll work on that.

Yes, but how fun is it being something that isn't serving a function?

At least if they can spot then there is at least a game purpose for the insergant civilians.

Under my rules, there wouldnt be enough bonus to warrent "playing to be shot", but there is enough punishment to avoid shooting them. If they can spot, they are helping the team, therefore not just standing around waiting to see if an american is dumb enough to shoot them.

As far as removing wrench and spade, both of those tools make the civilians a combatant - if a coalition soldier saw a civilian repairing an insergant vehicle, surely they would shoot them in real life? "Hey, I'm just a civilian repairing war equipment."

Reduce the bonus for arresting and getting shot, they become more of a civilian, but to motivate players to be a civilian, you have to allow them to spot, to help the team, else they really are just pointless.

IMO, slightly biased, obviously, I think my suggestions would solve the problem on all sides, except the people who are enjoying trying to intentionally be shot.

[eggman]

Some aspects of your ideas have merit, some don't .. never said we wouldn't evaluate options.... I did say some of what you propose is not technically possible.

[ReaperMAC]

Exactly, removing civilians is equal to removing engineer (his wrench & shovel) AND medic (large number of field dressings) on the insurgent side. Hopefully the devs can find an alternate solution to that.

[jackal22]

argh played a round of helmand, it was like a whack a mole fair ground game, civilians were popping up and down with insurgents and the newer players were pot shotting at any thing that moved behind the burms.

we lost way too badly

[Outlawz7]

eggman']permaban.

Thats what you call "Owned on sight"

[Outlawz7]

Also, I agree on the idea, that if a civi causes a death, he isnt considered a civilain anymore.
He remains the same, but can be shot with out penalties.

[indigo|blade]

In addition, I think there should be a penalty for the side shooting Civvys, as opposed to a benefit for the Insurgents getting shot. Therefore you only modify the British/USMC tickets; in this way you'll get a stable number to balance the Insurgent ticket mechanics.

Shooting a Civvy = -X tickets for the British/USMC

Capturing a Civvy = +X tickets for the British/USMC

Please get rid of the ticket bonus to the Insurgents! As an example, we won "Desert Storm" as the Insurgents last night 700+ tickets to 0.

eek.

[ReaperMAC]

Please get rid of the ticket bonus to the Insurgents! As an example, we won "Desert Storm" as the Insurgents last night 700+ tickets to 0.

eek.

Ticket bonus, I believe, is there to compensate for the Insurgents having no armor and no ability to revive.

Seems like you won that round because the other team was trigger happy

[Outlawz7]

Well, the problem is, that whenever a bunch of civilians got knifed, we had to put a few more in front of the USMC firing squad to regain back the lost tickets

[NavalLord]

Two questions:

What is up with those hands?

Why does he have a pistol? I thought they weren't suppose to have guns.

[Outlawz7]

^
Yeah, maybe give him a recolored medic pouch belt?

[indigo|blade]

Ticket bonus, I believe, is there to compensate for the Insurgents having no armor and no ability to revive.

Seems like you won that round because the other team was trigger happy

They start with a Ticket Lead to compensate for those types of things Reaper. Secondly, the USMC doesn't have a choice but to blow up that gate. Heaven help the poor saps that are given wrenches on the Insurgent side.

[Dunehunter]

Something which worked on an earlier game was just overpowering them from the ridge on the south side. Someone even managed to get an apc up there and get it down safely on the other side, allowing us to cut them off and take them all out.

[ReaperMAC]

They start with a Ticket Lead to compensate for those types of things Reaper. Secondly, the USMC doesn't have a choice but to blow up that gate. Heaven help the poor saps that are given wrenches on the Insurgent side.

My mistake, I thought you meant Ticket Bonus as in Ticket lead. And as far as I know, you cant repair the gate after its gone, gotta watch out for the IEDs and mines though.

[eggman]

hands are fixed. sidearm geometry is immaterial to game play (we're working on stuff to address it but that will come in a later release).

Please keep the constructive ideas coming in Modelling an unarmed player civilian character in an FPS is obviously not something you see very often, but is a very real part of an insurgency and we want to get it to the stage where it's a realistic representation of the combat dynamics faced by modern armies when fighting a civilian insurgency.

[indigo|blade]

Yes, you can repair that gate. We repaired that damn gate over and over and over and over and....

That was our Medic station as well, we repaired the gate, got blown up and dropped thousands of Med Packs.

[Masaq]

As I've said elsewhere:

At the minute the vast majority of people are combatants, with a few civillians thrown in for assistance and mucking about.

Suggestion 1:

If you made the civillian the default kit and then players had to request the insurgent kits (which would allow squad and overall limits), you'd have a far greater number of civillians and fewer combatants.

The similarities between the two could be increased, virtually to the point where the only difference was the visibility of the weapon, so that civillians were at far greater risk of being shot- with a slightly smaller ticket penalty for shooting them, for the brits but with a much larger ticket gain for knifing them.

The aim would be to make it riskier to be a civillian, so that if you start messing around and pissing troops off then the Brits can be justified in shooting you, whilst at the same time making shooting them less attractive in comparision to "arresting" them with the knife.

Suggestion 2:

You could maybe play with the ticket losses a little more- so the Brits maybe loose 4 tickets for shooting a civillian, but the civillian's death ALSO costs the insurgency 2 or 3 tickets instead of just one- also making it less attractive to go play silly buggers near troops.

The trick would be in balancing it so that the Brits didn't see shooting everything that moved as a Good Tactic, but conversely making it so that it was less advantagous for Civilians to get themselves shot.

[ReaperMAC]

Yes, you can repair that gate. We repaired that damn gate over and over and over and over and....

That was our Medic station as well, we repaired the gate, got blown up and dropped thousands of Med Packs.

Really? I stood at the gate for about 5 minutes and it never seemed to change! I was walking in and around the gate too. Maybe I gotta find that right spot.

[indigo|blade]

You need to use the Shovel to repair it, not the wrench. It works anywhere near the gate.