Tanks a "little" to strong.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-07-20 17:16

Tanks are over-powered? I bet over there in the Terrorist\Iraq Republican Guard Forums they are saying the same thing....

*Dirka-Joe* OMGZ....American tanks are unbalanced, we can't stop them with all of these russian crapper RPG's...they are killing us all the way from Chinese mountains!!...gheyness.

*Dirka-Vikingo* I'm stealing your Goat......AND USE TEH DIRKA SEARCH BUTTON!!!

So yeah tanks can pwn about anything if there isn't airsupport...gotta have some teamwork to destroy those things.

Metis-M · Post by **Metis-M** » 2007-07-20 17:33

Garack wrote:Hi There!

During the 0607 OB i played around with tanks. Normaly i played Inf. With their zooms tanks are a little overpowered i think.

Yes, Tanks Spawn Time is high..but take a look at the screenshot.

This was a 0607 Game three or four weeks ago on Qwai River. And this is not a wide, open map.

I try to play the tank a best as i can: Drive (alone) .. Zoom and Snipe Man/Apc...Never entered base territory...When taken hit, hide and repair instantly...follow orders.

This was the result oO:

I say it all the time here, but no one want hear it.

daranz wrote:They are TANKS. God, if a heavy, armored hunk of metal with a large cannon and good optics to direct that cannon at distant targets wasn't capable of striking fear into the hearts of mere infantry running around the battlefield, they'd stop making the damn things, and use damn Toyotas with .50 cals on the back instead.

Your first thought when you see a tank shouldn't be "oh.. tank.. let me get my H-AT and we'll be on our way in a minute." It should be "JESUS CHRIST IT'S A TANK!"

Do you know how ends the war Israel against Hizbollah, Israel couldnt break through long time because of many ATs.
Now think about it and say me where that many ATs in 0.6?
If every squad could have HAT, i would say o.k., there should be 6 HATs for every side.
Or LAT should have more AT capabilities and be normal class.
And Engineer need 2 mines as it was before and also 2 C4.
At the end every regular army squad have AT in real life.

Score system need to be overworked, people destroying such warmachines should get not only points for one kill they also should get points for very good teamwork, because they save many lifes.

El_Vikingo · Post by **El_Vikingo** » 2007-07-20 17:38

Well tanks aren't supposed to enter crowded areas where the can get stuck or outmanouvered, hence the infantry tactic is GET THE TANK INTO THE CITY!

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-07-20 17:47

Heres the deal, a lot of guys in PUB servers just RUN AROUND. They don't realize the threats they are dealing and how easily it is to kill someone who isn't covered well. They think that they should be able to move into any area of a map at will and be able to fight there. Sorry but when armor is present and you don't have a counter...or the armor just has a way better position than you...RETREAT. You have to smoke and run far far away. Sometimes this involves giving up a checkpoint etc...waiting for reinforcements or a supply crate if you aren't prepared. Tanks close off entire areas of maps for infantry sometimes. On Kashan I definitely have been in a position where Tanks have dominated the area so my squad just has to sit behind a burm until our Armor can mobilize. Thats battle for you, tanks were designed to be overpowering killers.

BTW Qwai river is the EASIEST map to kill a tank on. At least in my experience I've never been owned in such a fashion. Maybe the tankers I've played against haven't been good though...after hearing the OP talk about kicking *** like that, I've definitely thought of some good tanks positions to own from. (South ridge near temple anyone?)

BTW, I'd REALLY like to see a little bird with 2 AT guys sitting on it...the little bird flies over to tank and hovers *boom boom*...tank is out. That'd be kick ***.

Metis-M · Post by **Metis-M** » 2007-07-20 17:52

VipersGhost wrote:Heres the deal, a lot of guys in PUB servers just RUN AROUND. They don't realize the threats they are dealing and how easily it is to kill someone who isn't covered well. They think that they should be able to move into any area of a map at will and be able to fight there. Sorry but when armor is present and you don't have a counter...or the armor just has a way better position than you...RETREAT. You have to smoke and run far far away. Sometimes this involves giving up a checkpoint etc...waiting for reinforcements or a supply crate if you aren't prepared. Tanks close off entire areas of maps for infantry sometimes. On Kashan I definitely have been in a position where Tanks have dominated the area so my squad just has to sit behind a burm until our Armor can mobilize. Thats battle for you, tanks were designed to be overpowering killers.

BTW Qwai river is the EASIEST map to kill a tank on. At least in my experience I've never been owned in such a fashion. Maybe the tankers I've played against haven't been good though...after hearing the OP talk about kicking *** like that, I've definitely thought of some good tanks positions to own from. (South ridge near temple anyone?)

BTW, I'd REALLY like to see a little bird with 2 AT guys sitting on it...the little bird flies over to tank and hovers *boom boom*...tank is out. That'd be kick ***.

Before u do this a tank kill 10, then do it again, at the end it looks like 50 to 5 for stay around and make only click.

But it not always so, for example if one side have better pilots and other noob pilots they can destroy tanks, like sometimes on Kashan Desert.

Post by **dbzao** » 2007-07-20 17:54

Tanks are fine as they should imo.

I remember one moment as MEC in Kashan's South Village. I was infantry and we got pinned down by 3 tanks on the east side and a squad of enemy infantry in the hills to the south east.

I couldn't do anything with my squad. We did have a HAT but they were too far out to be engaged effectively. We stood there for some long minutes until our frogfoot spawned and thank god a good pilot got it.

We were reporting the tank positions and we just saw the frogfoot engaging one tank after the other. All 3 tanks got destroyed... was beautiful. Even after the tanks were out, we were getting shot by snipers in the hills so we spotted them and requested air support again.

The frogfoot just came blasting the hills with hydras and the cannons. Was just so right

Metis-M · Post by **Metis-M** » 2007-07-20 17:57

'[R-DEV wrote:dbzao']Tanks are fine as they should imo.

I remember one moment as MEC in Kashan's South Village. I was infantry and we got pinned down by 3 tanks on the east side and a squad of enemy infantry in the hills to the south east.

I couldn't do anything with my squad. We did have a HAT but they were too far out to be engaged effectively. We stood there for some long minutes until our frogfoot spawned and thank god a good pilot got it.

We were reporting the tank positions and we just saw the frogfoot engaging one tank after the other. All 3 tanks got destroyed... was beautiful. Even after the tanks were out, we were getting shot by snipers in the hills so we spotted them and requested air support again.

The frogfoot just came blasting the hills with hydras and the cannons. Was just so right

O.K., what did u done urselves in that round?

El_Vikingo · Post by **El_Vikingo** » 2007-07-20 17:58

Cap Village!

Post by **GeZe** » 2007-07-20 18:01

'[R-DEV wrote:dbzao']Tanks are fine as they should imo.

I remember one moment as MEC in Kashan's South Village. I was infantry and we got pinned down by 3 tanks on the east side and a squad of enemy infantry in the hills to the south east.

I couldn't do anything with my squad. We did have a HAT but they were too far out to be engaged effectively. We stood there for some long minutes until our frogfoot spawned and thank god a good pilot got it.

We were reporting the tank positions and we just saw the frogfoot engaging one tank after the other. All 3 tanks got destroyed... was beautiful. Even after the tanks were out, we were getting shot by snipers in the hills so we spotted them and requested air support again.

The frogfoot just came blasting the hills with hydras and the cannons. Was just so right

Ummm, yes, the frogfoot.

I was playing Kashan in a squad with fuzzhead. He created a dedicated AA squad. We got both AA Bradley Linebackers AND we got the other people in the squad to request AA kits, they got in a Humvee. We all moved as one. But even with all this AA power, all the missiles, everything, it didn't matter. The frogfoot came and killed the entire squad.

It wasn't afraid of 2 AA vehicles and guys with stingers, and there was no need for it to be afraid.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-07-20 18:01

WORD Zao!! I love that stuff...seriously its what makes PR the crack-cocain-oxycotin that it is. Tanks are fine...Metis...if a tank kills 10 guys and dies...FINE. That tank isn't going to spawn for quiet some time. On qwai, with the tank out...the US squad will run the map with little birds. US has it tough on pubs though because they don't coordinate well as choppers tend to be idiot magnets. On private servers with sick team work...man, transport choppers are a nightmare for chinese...I've seen it and it sucks. Pretty soon I'm thinking in the back of my mind...those US choppers or over balanced...they need to limit them down

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-07-20 18:03

'[R-PUB wrote:GeZe']Ummm, yes, the frogfoot.

I was playing Kashan in a squad with fuzzhead. He created a dedicated AA squad. We got both AA Bradley Linebackers AND we got the other people in the squad to request AA kits, they got in a Humvee. We all moved as one. But even with all this AA power, all the missiles, everything, it didn't matter. The frogfoot came and killed the entire squad. It wasn't afraid of 2 AA vehicles and guys with stingers, and there was no need for it to be afraid.

LOL, yeah...I'm hoping the AA missles get fixed in the next build or two. Who knows, maybe AA just isn't that effective. I'm sure the flight physics will be updated in the next few builds as well to limit some of crazyness with planes.

Metis-M · Post by **Metis-M** » 2007-07-20 18:11

VipersGhost wrote:WORD Zao!! I love that stuff...seriously its what makes PR the crack-cocain-oxycotin that it is. Tanks are fine...Metis...if a tank kills 10 guys and dies...FINE. That tank isn't going to spawn for quiet some time. On qwai, with the tank out...the US squad will run the map with little birds. US has it tough on pubs though because they don't coordinate well as choppers tend to be idiot magnets. On private servers with sick team work...man, transport choppers are a nightmare for chinese...I've seen it and it sucks. Pretty soon I'm thinking in the back of my mind...those US choppers or over balanced...they need to limit them down

I believe you about private/clan but i think about public.

The problem is, R-DEV decided to split the tank crew, because of that a time people dont use tanks, so PR was more infantry mod, with i think 0.5(?) Devs wanted to change it and made the better scope, now the make radical scope for tanks and apcs. The problem is, with that u need only to camp and shoot, ur score u reach not with hard work (shoots an maneuver + tactics) but with overpowered vehicles and a good camping place.
Are u good player after that?

VipersGhost wrote:LOL, yeah...I'm hoping the AA missles get fixed in the next build or two. Who knows, maybe AA just isn't that effective. I'm sure the flight physics will be updated in the next few builds as well to limit some of crazyness with planes.

Hmm, I tried fragfoot but couldnt find any enemy, maybe flying in PR not for me, in poe2 and with a10 at al basrah(0.5) i was good, some should write a guide how they find and destroy vehicles in 0.6.

Post by **dbzao** » 2007-07-20 18:13

Metis-M wrote:O.K., what did u done urselves in that round?

We held the village. We couldn't move out, but they had to come with infantry. If they came with tanks we would get them with the HAT. So they just stood there shooting from far away.

You can't get more realistic than that

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-07-20 18:15

Metis-M wrote:I believe you about private/clan but i think about public.

The problem is, R-DEV decided to split he tank crew, because of that a time people dont use tanks, so PR was more infantry mod, with i think 0.5(?) Devs wanted to change it and make the scope, now the make radical scope for tanks and apcs. The problem is, with that u need only to camp and shoot, ur score u reach not with hard work (shoots an maneuver + tactics) but with overpowered vehicles and a good camping place.
Are u good player after that?

100% agree with forcing the double users for tanks. These things are so powerful that I think it would be a good idea to require two guys to run them. Its WAY more fun anyways+more effective. I've thought of increasing the delay to shoot if you switch from driver-gunner etc...but more and more I think it should be required to have 2 guys to run a tank.

Maybe disable switching seats all together?? That would fix the problem. The first guy jumps in is driver, to get a gunner there actually has to be someone in the tank already.

El_Vikingo · Post by **El_Vikingo** » 2007-07-20 18:18

Metis-M wrote:
Hmm, I tried fragfoot but couldnt find any enemy, maybe flying in PR not for me, in poe2 and with a10 at al basrah(0.5) i was good, some should write a guide how they find and destroy vehicles in 0.6.

WTF?! PoE2 has Albasrah!?!? j/k

Fly high, wait for ground troops to loacte the tanks, then attack.

It's not called Close Air Support for nothing!

Maybe disable switching seats all together?? That would fix the problem. The first guy jumps in is driver, to get a gunner there actually has to be someone in the tank already.

IIRC that's hardcoded, was possible in bf42.

Wolfe · Post by **Wolfe** » 2007-07-20 18:41

Tanks are not overpowered; the maps are underpowered.

Many of the current maps were not originally designed to see such long distances. There just aren't enough places for infantry to hide/move without being seen halfway across the map. The answer is not to nerf tanks, but to introduce better designed maps.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-07-20 18:52

Wolfe wrote:Tanks are not overpowered; the maps are underpowered.

Many of the current maps were not originally designed to see such long distances. There just aren't enough places for infantry to hide/move without being seen halfway across the map. The answer is not to nerf tanks, but to introduce better designed maps.

Ah yes, this should have been brought up earlier. With all of the new changes etc for this release...the maps are SURE to get way better now that the Dev mappers will have seen how the games play and peoples thoughts on them.

Lampshade111 · Post by **Lampshade111** » 2007-07-20 18:58

VipersGhost wrote:Ah yes, this should have been brought up earlier. With all of the new changes etc for this release...the maps are SURE to get way better now that the Dev mappers will have seen how the games play and peoples thoughts on them.

I thought they only did longer view distances for some of them?

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-07-20 19:01

I meant changes as a whole...more scopes on rifles...slower movements...double tank zoom etc. All of these things effect the gameplay. In .7 I'm sure the maps will have evolved a LOT being that this release had some really big changes to the core gameplay.

El_Vikingo · Post by **El_Vikingo** » 2007-07-20 19:08

The whole mod is still WIP. People kep forgetting that modding and getting things exact is all trail and error, hence the BETA's for 0.6.