Bring back the Doctor, Change the war vet?

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2007-07-21 06:53

I was playing as civi today, and I started thinking about it's roll on the battlefield. Currently, the civi has the following:

Shovel -- Currently useless, could be useful later on?
Rocks -- hit stuff, get the occasional kill, distract people
Wrench -- fix stuff (Not that that actually happens often)
Binoculars -- see stuff
Bandages -- heal stuff
Grappling hook -- Get places

I think the civi class is a find addition. It has, however, too many rolls to fill. It's supposed to be some hybrid of medic and engineer. I say take this out and let the civi focus on scouting the map, with their binoculars, and fixing/building(?) with their stuff (laborers). Maybe keep a bandage or two.

I propose bringing back the doctor. This is a teamwork class that has the following:

Knife
Pistol
12-15 bandages

Now, it was said that they cut the doctor because "how often does a GP or Surgeon grab an AK and go a-fighting?". Well, this doctor is neither -- he is an insurgent who happens to know how to better dress a wound than your average Joe.

Also, I know it's been suggested, but I missed out on why we can't give the grappling hook to the war vet instead (or in addition to) the Civilian class?

ArmedDrunk&Angry · Post by **ArmedDrunk&Angry** » 2007-07-21 06:55

Very interesting...
Would the points for killing / arresting a civ change ?

101 bassdrive · Post by **101 bassdrive** » 2007-07-21 10:36

would be funny if that doctor would have ampethamin or opium he can give to teammates who bleed out.
then the blurr disappears and the treated guy can take quite a few hits before he dies. sort of like a superjihad mario star.

jackal22 · Post by **jackal22** » 2007-07-21 10:50

i think war vet was seen as too over powered since they had a g3 as well.

i suppose a doctor kit would be nice again but really i honestly never saw more then maybe 2 people in a 64 server with it. at lest there are more civs running around so more healing.

azn_chopsticks_boi · Post by **azn_chopsticks_boi** » 2007-07-21 15:35

jackal22 wrote:i think war vet was seen as too over powered since they had a g3 as well.

i suppose a doctor kit would be nice again but really i honestly never saw more then maybe 2 people in a 64 server with it. at lest there are more civs running around so more healing.

wat version r u talking about...in v.6 war vets use ak-47

jackal22 · Post by **jackal22** » 2007-07-21 16:24

could have sworn they had a g3 >_> maybe im thinking of 0.5 or something, cant say i pay too much attention to insurgent kits, usually always pick the insurgent insurgent kit any way.

youm0nt · Post by **youm0nt** » 2007-07-21 16:52

The war veteran indeed got the G3A3 back in 0.5. Now they get the AK-47 in 0.6

[uBp]Irish · Post by **[uBp]Irish** » 2007-07-21 17:10

i always thought that a war-vet was supposed to be like.. one step up from the basic insurgent.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but the class with the ak101/gp30 is now the squadleader for the insurgents right. Why not make a more experienced member of the insurgency (aka the war-vet) the squad leader?

give him back the g3, more ammo, 2-3 grenades, field bandage, knife and body armor and there's a good fix.

I thought when the doc got removed that was another weird decision, but with a pistol/knife/bandages/syringe (for the bleeding like someone else suggested) i think would be even a better viable option.

leave civi's as they are and insurgency might be a more interesting faction to play.

Eddiereyes909 · Post by **Eddiereyes909** » 2007-07-21 17:21

I think that that is a pretty good idea.

ReaperMAC · Post by **ReaperMAC** » 2007-07-21 20:37

Problem is, the War Vet and Insurgent resemble sort of the same role. Both armed with AKs. While one may have a molotov and ammo while the other has grenades and field dressing, both of these kits fill the same or quite similar role in that they are both used to engage the enemy. Unlike the conventional armies where each other class specializes in different fields.

I like Irish's idea but I wouldnt mind replacing the war vet with another class and make the War Vet to be an officer's kit since you'd think he would know how to lead a pack of insurgents.

DavidP · Post by **DavidP** » 2007-07-21 20:38

Agreed! I was just about to make a thread suggesting splitting the insurgent class into 2. A doctor like you said but with a med bag instead of field dressings(No pistol still stones), And an engineer like Civilian with Shovel,Stones,Wrench,Binocs,Grapple(No field dressings) Also a better Idea for the war vet would be if they kept there Ak47's gave em pistol with 3 clips and extra frags and smokes.

Post by **eggman** » 2007-07-21 20:48

The Insurgent SL is actually intended to reflect an embedded SF operator.

The Insurgency is badly missing an intended element of mortar pits. Hopefully we'll get to those in v0.7.

The Civilian is a bit "jack of all trades, master of no gun" at this stage while we evaluate the game play dynamics impacts.

I am not personally crazy about the War Vet load out atm. Needs some consideration.

I'd like to see an ambulance for the Insurgents but only if we can make it work well. It would also be on a long spawn timer, so the idea of advancing behind it would be ludicrously wasteful. But effectively some way to get healed other than Civilians might be nice.

Additionally I have some ideas wrt the Civilians and how to build on that basic concept so expect to see more of that dynamic evolve in future releases.

Also um.. I really dislike the Christmas tree look of the current civvys.

ReaperMAC · Post by **ReaperMAC** » 2007-07-21 20:52

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman']
Also um.. I really dislike the Christmas tree look of the current civvys.

Same

youm0nt · Post by **youm0nt** » 2007-07-21 21:04

Bring back the foreign mercenary class for insurgents, haha.

billdan · Post by **billdan** » 2007-07-21 23:53

lol, the foreign merc with the SCAR-H that had less recoil than the current M4a1 although it fired a 7.62...

i like the idea of the "laborer" role for the civi and his shovel. perhaps it would be possible for the civis to "rebuild" their homes (destructable buildings) if theyre damaged or destroyed. this of course would take much longer to do than building a bunker of one of the conventional armies

i also second the idea of the civis getting much less field dressings, a new outfit (or none at all) and the doctor class returning with something weaker than the AK47-perhaps an AK74U or something

dont think we need another "mechanic" class though.

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-07-22 00:32

Repairing buildings is a nice idea

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2007-07-22 02:37

Glad to see that I've some support for the doctor idea. I do like the civilian idea but really they've got too many jobs. I say stick them with the labor jobs.

I too am not too crazy about the war vet kit. The kit itself is a GREAT idea. A field dressing and a few frags, however, don't make it "feel" veteran. What's a common rifle in the middle east, other than the AK-series? Maybe give him that.

As for the "Embedded" special forces guy, where exactly is he from? Is he MEC...or...what? I think that sort of needs to go; nice idea but it's not often used really.

As for the "Foreign mercenary" I remember it in the old .5 manual, but wasn't it for Militia and not Insurgent?

youm0nt · Post by **youm0nt** » 2007-07-22 03:00

Expendable Grunt wrote:As for the "Foreign mercenary" I remember it in the old .5 manual, but wasn't it for Militia and not Insurgent?

They were in 0.5 on the map Street for insurgents. I think they looked like the rebel model from Special Forces (milita model for PR now).

tekkyy · Post by **tekkyy** » 2007-07-22 21:18

0.6 civi has quite a few field dressings (and 0.6 has no doctors) which encourages insurgents and civis to blend together. That can be good.

If we introduce Doctors again and remove/reduce the field dressings of civis would you make it penalty for shooting a civi and then the civi bleeding out?
It'll further encourage UK not to shoot the civis.

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2007-07-23 05:11

Damn, street was the ONE map I never played in .5 >.>

Don't the current real life insurgents use mercenaries as well?