Client-Side Hit Detection?

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-07-20 00:04

I seriously must be special or something...I dont have any problems with this. I do have verizon FIOS but I play on TG with a 80 ping(not very low) and do great. I even killed a civ while he was driving. I kill guys on the run (lead them) and generally dont notice any problems. Weird that you guys are seeing such a noticable difference between betas. Most people are complaining about the headshots being TOO common...that doesn't sound like messed up hitboxes to me.

Outlaw you might have been hiting the side of the hill...sometimes I think you can see through the tip-top of the ridge and hit it...but really the guy is on the other side...who knows. 10 tank rounds not killing sniper??

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-07-20 00:06

The sniper was 10 m in front of me....

Yeah, I know about the terrain drawing smaller in BF2, especially at edges...but that wasnt the case...

It was 10 coax, not shells

xseeyax · Post by **xseeyax** » 2007-07-22 22:03

Still no visit from the devs? Please share some input!

Post by **eggman** » 2007-07-22 22:19

Don' understand what you are asking for ???

Client side hit detection IS the problem. One client predicts a trajectory, the server sees it differently, the two players in question have a discrepancy.

For v0.6 we have actually disabled client side hit detection because the client side hit detection is (apparently) a source of hit detection lag and issues in BF2.

Royalwolf · Post by **Royalwolf** » 2007-07-23 12:29

ive just got to playing PRMM again and im having this problem. I dunno whats going on but something is messed up. when aim at someones head and shoot i expect the bullet to go to thier head and for them to die, at least this is what happens every other game i play. But in this version i dunno if its random weapon deviation or messed up hit boxes but i aint getting the frags!!!

I dont know if its the weapons accuracy, they seem to have been made way more inaccurate than in previous versions and the 0.6 beta. But im getting bullets i aim at thier head go up go randomly and left to right deviations 0-1m around the target. this is at like 5-20m away. im prone enemy is prone neither moving im behind so he doesnt see me, and i have had sure shots missing all night so check and double check the red dots on his head, then i fire. WTF a miss ??? argg. at which point ive given up on headshotting and resort to shotgun ninjaring, although not the best tactic against OP G3s works better than the smooth bore rifles the USMC seem to have been issued

xseeyax · Post by **xseeyax** » 2007-07-23 20:31

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman']Don' understand what you are asking for ???

Client side hit detection IS the problem. One client predicts a trajectory, the server sees it differently, the two players in question have a discrepancy.

For v0.6 we have actually disabled client side hit detection because the client side hit detection is (apparently) a source of hit detection lag and issues in BF2.

If the client predicts a trajectory, and the server sees it differently, then that's called server-side hit detection, meaning it's the server who decides whether or not the shot hits (hence "server-side" hit detection). I'm asking for the hit detection to be placed on the client's side, meaning it's the client who decides whether or not the shot hits. Therefore I see guy, I shoot guy, server makes guy dead.

As it is now (server-side): I see guy, I shoot guy, server looks at shots, looks at guy, says "Nope, guy moved since you shot. You lose. Haha." On my side (client side), my computer will see guy and say "Hey, I hit guy" and my computer therefore makes blood splatter (since the bullet did in fact hit guy on my side). However, the server does not agree because guy moved since then and therefore guy doesn't die, even though I hit the target I was shooting at.

So I guess my question is:

Is it possible for the hit detection to be placed on the client's side?

I'm not necessarily asking if you will, I'm asking if you can. If you can, then hopefully we can convince you to implement that somewhere along the line. At the very least I'd love to see it in a beta. After all, that is our proving ground to see what works and what doesn't right?

system · Post by **system** » 2007-07-23 20:41

Outlawz wrote:In older games, they had big hit boxes around the player, so you just had to shoot near his head to kill him

And the famous bullet-to-the-foot-and-insta-kill

How about having both server and client side hit detection combined?

Source... ROFL

Wolfe · Post by **Wolfe** » 2007-07-23 21:33

xseeyax wrote:I'm not necessarily asking if you will, I'm asking if you can. If you can, then hopefully we can convince you to implement that (client side hit detection) somewhere along the line.

Didn't Egg just get through saying they can but opted not to because of increased lag?

Eggman wrote:For v0.6 we have actually disabled client side hit detection because the client side hit detection is (apparently) a source of hit detection lag and issues in BF2.

xseeyax · Post by **xseeyax** » 2007-07-23 21:48

Wolfe wrote:Didn't Egg just get through saying they can but opted not to because of increased lag?

No. He's saying they disabled client-side hit detection, but it never was on the client's side. It's always been server-side. Even Battlefield 2 is server-side. That's why I made the dictinction for him, so he could see that it's always been server-side, as the events he described are actually server-side, not client-side.

Client-side hit detection all but eliminates lag, not increases it.

SiN|ScarFace · Post by **SiN|ScarFace** » 2007-07-23 22:20

Well then if you know more than Egg why don't you start moding and prove him wrong.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-07-23 22:48

Indeed Sin, I feel like this guy is about to get some egg in his face.

SiN|ScarFace · Post by **SiN|ScarFace** » 2007-07-23 23:01

lol Thats a good one.

xseeyax · Post by **xseeyax** » 2007-07-24 02:32

SiN|ScarFace wrote:Well then if you know more than Egg why don't you start moding and prove him wrong.

First off, I never said or claimed to know more than Eggman. If I did, why would I be asking if it was possible? Second, if you don't have anything to suggest in the suggestions forum, why bother posting? It's not enough that you don't know enough on the subject to comment, but then you show off your brilliance with these 1st grade-caliber "jokes":

VipersGhost wrote:Indeed Sin, I feel like this guy is about to get some egg in his face.

SiN|ScarFace wrote:lol Thats a good one.

Let's keep this thread on-topic and actually contribute to the PR community.

Post by **KingofCamelot** » 2007-07-24 02:55

xseeyax wrote:No. He's saying they disabled client-side hit detection, but it never was on the client's side. It's always been server-side. Even Battlefield 2 is server-side. That's why I made the dictinction for him, so he could see that it's always been server-side, as the events he described are actually server-side, not client-side.

Client-side hit detection all but eliminates lag, not increases it.

We can not edit the network code so this entire discussion is moot. All we can do is tweak the settings we're allowed to touch.

One of them is DISABLE CLIENT SIDE HIT DETECTION. Now, how can you claim that there is no client-side hit detection when it gives you the option to disable it?

Also, client-side hit detection is not the miracle you make it sound like, otherwise every game would be using it.

Using your example from earlier. You see a guy, you zoom, fire, hit. With client-side detection you hit the guy and kill him. However, lets say he starts to move right as you go to fire. Suddenly you killed him even though on his screen he was behind cover. Basically a fully client-side hit detection scheme would increase cases of players getting killed after they have moved behind cover on their screen.

Post by **eggman** » 2007-07-24 03:03

Also one reason why multiplayer games tend to try and use a server side validation is to avoid hacking.

BF2 *does* use client side hit prediction. We have disabled it for v0.6 to see if it improves things. Between the reduced movement speeds and the server side hit detection I think the hitbox detection is improved, tho I can't say we've done empirical testing to that effect.

xseeyax · Post by **xseeyax** » 2007-07-25 19:38

'[R-DEV wrote:KingofCamelot']Using your example from earlier. You see a guy, you zoom, fire, hit. With client-side detection you hit the guy and kill him. However, lets say he starts to move right as you go to fire. Suddenly you killed him even though on his screen he was behind cover. Basically a fully client-side hit detection scheme would increase cases of players getting killed after they have moved behind cover on their screen.

He wouldn't have been behind cover but for a split second (literally). This scenario is much easier to swallow than shooting someone in the head, seeing blood splatter, and then them shaking it off and shooting you. I'd rather be behind cover for 0.2 seconds and get shot, realizing I was still out of cover on their screen, than watch people shake off headshots.

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman']BF2 *does* use client side hit prediction. We have disabled it for v0.6 to see if it improves things. Between the reduced movement speeds and the server side hit detection I think the hitbox detection is improved, tho I can't say we've done empirical testing to that effect.

I guess that's just a matter of opinion, but most people I've personally talked to don't like the hit detection in v0.6. I guess if you guys (the developers) like it better then it's something we'll just have to live with. I'll always vote for client-side though due to my example above.

In any case, thanks for the input.

El_Vikingo · Post by **El_Vikingo** » 2007-07-25 19:42

It can be up to two seconds.

Wasteland · Post by **Wasteland** » 2007-07-25 19:47

xseeyax wrote:He wouldn't have been behind cover but for a split second (literally). This scenario is much easier to swallow than shooting someone in the head, seeing blood splatter, and then them shaking it off and shooting you. I'd rather be behind cover for 0.2 seconds and get shot, realizing I was still out of cover on their screen, than watch people shake off headshots.

People would actually seek out higher pings then, in order to get an advantage.

I tend to think it's better to favor the person with the lower ping, which is why I don't like this idea.

Also, a double-tap to the head just doesn't work in PR. There's always been hitbox problems, which is why I've always full-auto sprayed moving targets. I think you just need to get used to it first.

SiN|ScarFace · Post by **SiN|ScarFace** » 2007-07-25 20:40

Blood/Dust does not = a hit and it has been that way since bf1942. Ever notice how you can lead people and kill them without ever producing blood/dust?

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-07-25 20:45

I notice that certain servers like TCC Teamplay has weird lag. My ping is the same as TG but on TG I dont experience lag...just server crashes

I live in Oregon, have FIOS 15/2 and get about a 70 ping to TG in-game....130 in the server menu. Hitbox detection is freakin awesome for me, compared to .5 I consistently, very consistently drop guys on the run at 200 meters with about 4 shots from G3. The bullet is the same here, its only a matter of leading your target...the G3 is just insanely nice. I rarely ever spray and tend to stop and shoot in CQB due to the MUCH better full-autto accuracy. I don't think I'm the only one happy with this, I think its definitely a matter of finding that good server though..TG is on the other side of the country for me but is still great. I NEVER complain of lag there, and I would be the first to *****...trust me.

BTW I've played a LOT of military games and used to be Delta Force 1 pro sniper....hitbox is pretty damn good in .6 Its just a matter of finding the good server that matches up with you....this should be your #1 goal in improving your gameplay. TCC lags for me...I hit and hit yet they dont die sometimes....it drives me UP THE WALL...so I play different servers as that nonsense is just trash gameplay that I will never enjoy. I'm sure for others though, TCC is their money server.