Legitamacy of foward attacks and non-AAS battles.

[paul]

I know there is the AAS in place to directs the fight and keep the fight all in one place. However, this is a reality mod and... AAS actually opens up a more tactical game:

1. I like to do things to hamper the enemy from gaining an objective of theirs. For example, in many maps teams have to capture one flag before it opens up the rest of the flaps in the map for them. One map that comes to mind is Ghost Train. The British must take Temple before they can capture either bridge flag. Even though China cannot take Temple, it is an excellent tactic to send a Chinese squad to Temple to keep the British from taking it. Typically the British will send most of their team to the bridge and only a few guys (1 squad) to take Temple. A Chinese squad there to greet them would stop any British progress and make the game an easy win for the Chinese. So even though AAS says not to attack the flag (Temple), it is advantageous for the Chinese to "defend" it.

2. In a map like 7 Gates, playing as British, I like to send a squad immediately to Temple with the intentions on sneaking into the flag area before the Chinese are defending it. You can typically sneak a squad in over the back wall, blow open the flag gate, get the squad in the flag room, repair the gate, and the enemy will never know you are there. Result, the British are already at the flag before the Chinese are aware of any perceived threat, even though AAS says not to attack it ey.

3. Armor... Armor shouldn't attack flags (directly). Armor should fight armor or support infantry from a distance. They shouldn't be roaming around cities or small flag areas. They have 3x zoom for a reason! I like to use armor to cut off enemy resupply lines. In a map like EJOD desert (.6), I will drive my tank around to the enemies teams rear and proceed to kill their tank, apcs, repair trucks, commander assets, hummer / vodniks, and RPs. I am not talking about driving my tank into the enemies main, but in the desert area between the main and their first flag. I don't think that tanks really belong in the city, but rather separating (and cutting off) the enemy main base from the action.


http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4769/ejoddesertiu6.jpg

Although all of these tactics "violate" the AAS, they all seem to be actual tactical gameplay. In reality, a force would do such things as attacking enemy supply lines and attempt to secure a flag before it is the main objective.

However, many service prohibit this (Tactical Gamer for one), which I find ironic because they call themselves "Tactical."

What do people have to say about the legitimacy of such tactics?

[Long Bow]

I think there are times when it is advantages to move ahead or behind of the AAS designated flags. As you pointed out there are advantages to it which can assist your team to win.

However there are times when a squad is of no use to the team by not capping or defending at a designated flag. If my team is getting it's a$$ kicked at the one and only flag we need before we can proceed I think that extra squad is needed on the front line. The game has to stay dynamic though so sometimes a squad leapfrogging ahead is advantagous and other times it's a waist of man-power.

[Outlawz7]

The route from US main to MEC main on that map of Ejod...thats baserape, becuase you can see into their base and 'cutting off supply routes' is just an excuse to camp there and kill anything that spawns there.

Cutting off supply routes is, when you get on the western hills and engage tanks coming from Gas Station to West City, not the main base..for example.

[El_Vikingo]

Slowing down the enemy is a valid tactic.

you have your whole team to stop a squad , so there should be no problem.

[indigo|blade]

Being one or two steps ahead of your opponent is the key to winning games in PR, I have used all of the tactics you've mentioned and more!

[mammikoura]

yeah using tactics like that is a very good thing. A small thing like that can really make the difference between victory and defeat. I really love the #1 tactic and I try to use it once in a while because even if you can't hold the enemy back for long, even that 1 minute or so will give your team quite an advantage.

[Eyre]

It is obviously advantageous to have at least 1 squad clearing the way to the next AAS objective, even if it is not officially able to be capped by your team yet. If the enemy is not defending the flag directly 'behind' the currently contested flag it means they failed to plan for the contingency that they might lose the flag the main force of each team is battling for. Getting a squad in to a defensive position on a flag before it goes live is incredibly effective in this regard - they can, if nothing else, delay the enemy's effort to reinforce the flag while the bulk of your team moves their attack to the new position. Server rules that disallow this obvious tactic are granting a handicap to a team that failed to plan and can make every flag an uphill battle for the attacking team against an entrenched enemy - not necessarily unrealistic, but sometimes frustrating.

[Duke]

i dont think what you mention specifically is regarded as a 'violation' of AAS at all, it is merely the kind of strategic thinking that wins rounds and seems to be sadly defunct in many squads which cluster around the 'main objectives' such as the bridges in ghost train.

To win rounds squads must not only be skilled in-game, but require a level of fluidity and predictive thinking that minimizes the mass flag hopping effect of the entire team moving to the A or D marker.

[blud]

Sounds good to me.

[GR34]

I always take my squad to the temple on seven gates blow the "DOOR" then repair it and wait for the rest of are team to cap the other flags! we also go about in teams of 2 to get rid of there rally points!

[paul]

I have to say I am really glad to see the responses here. It seems like everyone finds these tactics to be okay. I had a similar thread open at the Tactical Gamers forum because they told me to stop using these tactics. They closed the thread and told me not to use the tactics any more. Perhaps I will just play at a different server.

[fuzzhead]

to the OP:

I agree 100%. AFAIK tactical gamer is the only server that is so restricting on attacking other point. Please bring it up with them cause I think all is fair in tactics, and you should come with a tactic to overcome them, not whining.

If there is serious spawn killing issues on a map then that is something we need to deal with, but I dont see that happeening on most maps now (Al Kufrah is still prety bad). The idea with commander placed spawnpoints is that if you have a good team, you will have different spawnpoints and you will need to defend these points.

If your team is pushed back to their mainbase spawn, then either the enemy made a great assault or your team did a piss poor job of defending the other spawns.

[Carpface]

Leapfrogging is a risky tactic and it depends more and more on the skill of the players in your squads. If all your squads are organized enough and are all in the same place pushing the same cp, then theres no harm in that either. Your whole team will come down on the few sent there to leapfrog and they'll get annihilated, or if there is no one, you have maximum man-power for the fight to ensue at the next cp. The thing about the "divide and conquer" mentality is, as I said before, extremely reliant on the players themselves. The squad leapfrogging depends fully on the squad capping the capable point and vice versa. If both can defend their positions, chances are the team will have a head start on ticket bleed. But half the time we've all seen the plan fall apart, with your squad getting smashed while another squad plays checkers across the map.

[Wolfe]

I also agree and see no issue with occupying a non AAS flag with the exception of a main spawn which should not be touched unless it's the last flag standing.

[paul]

Again, glad to see these responses.

I absolutely love 7 Gates. It is a tough battle for UK, but a fun one.

However, because of the ticket disadvantage the UK has going into the Temple flag, I almost think they MUST have a squad inside of Temple before it because AAS attackable. If you wait until it is AAS attackable, the entire Chinese team will be there to greet you...

[Rhino]

Although all of these tactics "violate" the AAS, they all seem to be actual tactical gameplay. In reality, a force would do such things as attacking enemy supply lines and attempt to secure a flag before it is the main objective.

However, many service prohibit this (Tactical Gamer for one), which I find ironic because they call themselves "Tactical."

What do people have to say about the legitimacy of such tactics?

yes this is what is ment to be done with AAS, part of most map designs is to do these sort of things

[geogob]

I can only cite as example the Forward APCs in Kashan. If forward defense and attack was outside of the philosophy of AAS, there wouldn't be any forward spawn vehicles in Kashan.

[Longbow*]

I still think ( if it is possible to code ) that only specops class should be able to attack anything behind frontlines . All other kits ( maybe with exception of pilot ) should be punished for attacking anything behind the lines . Though theres a need of either SF medic kit or incresed ammount of field dressings carried by special ops units .

[asch]

However, many service prohibit this (Tactical Gamer for one), which I find ironic because they call themselves "Tactical."

fuzzhead']I agree 100%. AFAIK tactical gamer is the only server that is so restricting on attacking other point. Please bring it up with them cause I think all is fair in tactics, and you should come with a tactic to overcome them, not whining.

I think there may be some confusion about the Tactical Gamer server rules. We don't restrict players from moving to CPs that are not able to be captured except in one situation. We want the players to move freely throughout the map.

To clarify the TG ruleset...

1) Players may not attack UCBs
2) Players may not attack main CPs unless the AAS HQ message states to.

Main CP = last CP in AAS order typically where one team spawns.


If you were misled on the server or in our forums, I apologize. Don't hesitate to PM me or catch me on instant messenger to clear up.