Basrah Insurgency - suggestions for the next version

[lysander_atrull]

I've been playing insurgent mode Al Basrah for some time now and along with a few others (notably [TB]Tom on quakenet !) think this map could do with a few changes to bring it to life better.

The beef I have with it is that it can take up to ten minutes for it to get going the way it should be (search and destroy, moving defence) - the brits have no reason to leave the checkpoint since they'd just be lucky to find a cache or kill a civy whereas the insurgents have every reason to go after checkpoint since they know the brits don't know where the caches are and they might as well open the bleeding that is insurgent-held checkpoint.

Anyway, so imagine the following changes for Al Basrah:

1 Ammo cache location is known from within one minute of the game starting - 1 minute for the brits, from the get-go for the insurgents (the one that the brits will know about).

The brits then have every reason split defence of checkpoint and S&D and the game gets going.

Squads have time to organise transport - they know intel will reveal something in the area - maybe throw in a second troop transport helo or a pair of little bird equivalents (something ickle) and you've got a real ride of the valkyries initial engagement. Of course, the insurgents will know from the very start where the location is...

Secondly, lower the number of ammo caches - I think it is unrealistic at the moment and I don't see brits winning very often because of how many you have to get to win - the action isn't as focused as it could be and we recon this would put the fun back in fundamentalism. 5 or 6 caches sounds more sensible. revealing one or two at a time rather than three..

the civies should be a limited kit - perhaps four maximum per side of 32 - either make it possible to pick it up off the spawn car or force it onto the side so the brits have a chance at gaining some intel. at the moment with the flood of new players who like to shoot for green, the number of civies possible is not helping - this may change but I for one don't see it changing.

return the doctor class ? !

[T0M@field]

I would change the targets for both sides slightly.
right now the brits have one direct objective at the beginning of the map albasrah.
the insurgents have 10 D markers instead

This results in a crazy horde running to the checkpoint of the brits cause thats the only A marker in this mode right now

the red circle is for public usage not needful.
public players "love" direct objectives ( im sorry, but thats what i see each day on our server)

so what about this suggestion?
the brits get after 1 minute one A marker for an AmmoDump (AD).
after 5 minutes two will follow.
so after 5 minutes albasrah will have for
- the brits 1 D and 3 A markers and
- the insurgents 1 A and 3 D markers.

destroying a AD will result in a new spawndelayed (5 minutes?) AD.
gathering intel will reveal existing ADs and may force to spawn a 4th or even more ADs if the brits will get very much points for arresting civies.

and btw i dont like the civi role.
it should really be a pickup kit....perhaps with less delay after requesting an other kit.
the class of a civi has the bad aftertaste of dividing a team into two subteams.
cause the balance of insurgents and civies has sometimes on a public server a strane value
sometimes there are so less insurgents that defending a ammodumb wont be possible cause 75% on the insurgent side are throwing stones ;D
25% of the insurgent side may be allowed to be a civi...that would be fair for such a big city. otherwise there would be noone who will defend it
So please limits the civi class in any way.

and im sorry that we closed the second server.... that was not my decission.
i like the new ideas of insurgency mode!

[Outlawz7]

Civies should be definately limited, since they're abused so much becuase players that are civilians, think they cannot be touched by the opposing team and the opposing team shoots them on sight...

[Outlawz7]

the brits get after 1 minute one A marker for an AmmoDump (AD).
after 5 minutes two will follow.
so after 5 mintes albasrah will have for
- the brits 1 D and 3 A markers and
- the insurgents 1 A and 3 D markers.

destroying a AD will result in a new spawndelayed (5 minutes?) AD.

Then Brits could just wait and have all ammo dumps revealed.
I think its better, that they need to gather intel, because IRL they dont bring them locations on a plate and they just go in there and destroy it...

[[SAF]stal20048]

They number of caches does not need decreasing as this was tested in the beta and came out with bad results, with the British side always winning. The civilian kit should not be limited as i believe not enough people use it sometimes, and it give the insurgents flexibility and the advantage of using tactics involving civilians, and it gives an extra challenge to the already elite British team in avoiding civilians.


i do like the idea of having one ammo cache revealed before the game starts to get things going however, this should be the only one freely revealed as it wouldn't be necessary for the British to fight for intel otherwise.

[T0M@field]

oulaw:
i dont want any IRL arguments if they dont really fit. we talk about BF2 and a mod which is played online on public server.
right now this tournament-like map is way to confusing and demanding for both sides.
if you think that my scenario is not worth beeing suggested cause its not real for you, i may write a text into the info-box at the loadscreen only for guys like you.
Maybe like that:
"....After getting intel on some ADs the brits send their troops into the city...."
Whats the problem?
Its a game and the devs "stretch" the word reality very much....cause they all just wanna have fun and dont wanna have a simulator with real aweful scenarios, u'll never want to play, i hope!
this "war" which you are revoking is not a very nice one.
bringing in this civi-class is (in my point of view) a walk on a thin line.

btw:
i would love to see more modes where normal armies can fight against each other... perhaps more than two.
so at least three or more armies will have to fight in coalitions which may hold not for long (perhaps^^)

[Dunehunter]

We had that "the Brits know the location from the start" in the Beta. Didn't really work, the insurgents lost all the time.

[T0M@field]

the test was not "public"... i tested it too.
and after taking out the apache and taking in the random spawn with 10 ADs the map is completely unbalanced.

right now the average player is too confused... teamplay on a real public server is different to a tester scenario.
and what about the point of view of the insurgents.
i dont like to have 10 D markers from the beginning.
bf2's engine has a limit of 9 squads. so it even wont be realistic to send 10 squads out to defend all of them.
And than there is just one A marker.. guess what happens?
Mostly 90% of the insurgents and civies spawn near the checkpoint.

btw: the red circle is bugged anyway - so take it out and mark the ADs as usual objectives

[Outlawz7]

Thing is, it played well in favor of the British in beta, it just doesnt now, because of the influx of all the smacktards and noobs.

[El_Vikingo]

the test was not "public"... i tested it too.

Right now, people are confused because it's just been released.

[T0M@field]

thats a good argument, u are right.
but many wont start searching for a AD.
if this would be initialized by a slight changement i would like it.
i didnt see anyone who wrote that he had good experiences with this mode on a big public server the last days

i can agree that only one AD may be enough at the beginning to be revealed.
but the brits need the A marker and not this roughly speaking objective marker (red circle).
and we need a "littlebird with guns" to protect the transporting pilot in the merlin.
otherwise the merlin can be taken out too.
mostly its standing in the base.

[SGT.JOKER]

i think Al Basrah is fine right now, the main things that i think should be added are the docter class back and another merlin for transport purposes since when the US were on basrah they got 2 black hawks

[Tipsi]

Suggestion: Keep the ticket ratio 1-1.

At the moment its near 1-2 favouring insurgents.

This gives the brits VERY little time and on average, they uncover and destroy about 3-5 of the 16? chaches.

Imo 16 is WAAAAAAAY too much.

Max I think is about 6/7

[ReaperMAC]

16?? Its 9 at most. Brits have to destroy 8 of 9 caches.

[.:iGi:.BLACKWIRE]

I agree, some intel should be given to the Brits from the start to get the game going. Possibly 2/3 caches and then they track down further intel once the game is rolling.

I think the Merlin is too big for the city. I'd love to see 2x Lynx in there instead.

Also I think the insurgents need more RPG pickups. Sometimes the insurgents are just overpowered by the 4+ IFVs.

[El_Vikingo]

12 sounds better, but then again, way not have a mode where you have to destroy everysingle one? over 100 I believe!

[Outlawz7]

I think, its not the problem in the how GB can track down ammo caches; they did that fairly easy in beta, its only the wave of nubs that ruin it...
I actually managed to jihad an IFV while he was shooting something, not possible in beta, as they raped everything, they saw...

I think, GB should get intel on caches, where Insurgents are near and get intel on more caches, after they destroyed one. Its pretty annoying, since you cant defend all of them, then you have 3 SFs going around, blowing them apart, becuase there isnt enough players to defend all at a time...

[youm0nt]

I liked someone's idea of insurgents having to loot British kits to "build" another ammo cache.

[lysander_atrull]

as time go by lets see how the new influx adapts to the map - you never know, they may learn how to play it!

--
Alex

[Tyso3]

i agree with all points of the original post except for the civvies one.

Why?

Because this is the first game that has SUCCESSFULLY added non military into a military game! ok sure they get rocks but the civs should be even more non military. They should be able to do thinks like build doors,sandbags (as it seems theres never a com for insur)wire, repair buildings or walls.