Main base raping.. the whining must stop.

Artnez · Post by **Artnez** » 2007-07-24 23:56

So I was in a server this morning and everyone got into this massive discussion in in-game chat that base raping is now allowed and is on the level of cheating. No admins were around, so virtually the entire team spent the round arguing over this. I stayed silent, waiting to post in the forums (in-game is not the place for that kind of stuff).

To all of those who are NOT OPPOSED to *MAIN* base raping and attacking main bases BEFORE you have taken other Control Points first:

You say that main base raping is a legit tactic, right? Wrong. Why? Because:

A) In a modern day battlefield you will NEVER find the outposts of two opposing factions so close together -- especially the United States.

B) Forward operation bases are defended by hundreds of troops who's only job is to patrol the surrounding area and stand on watch. It's impossible to replicate this, even if you fractioned the numbers it wouldn't work because no one wants to stand around all round and point their weapon at nothing.

We 64 players max right now in a server. That's not even enough troops for a minor coordinated assault in real life (ground and air).

C) The main bases are meant as staging points for two armies. It is assumed that an army will be able to reinforce their positions until the round is over or until their army is routed from the field.

-----

Now, these were very simple and logical points that you cannot avoid. They are not opinions, they are facts.

Now here are some opinions that I have that, in my opinion (lol), have just as much weight as the ones above. But, seeing as they aren't facts, I can't state them as such:

The whole fun of the game is to coordinate assault and defense. It's not just about winning the round. If that was the case, we wouldn't need a mod. We could play online tetris. The idea is to use military-like tactics to achieve victory by successfully assaulting enemy positions and then defending your positions.

Look at it this way, would it be more exciting to take the second to last flag (with nothing but the main base left) and just sit there in the main executing everyone as they spawn? Or would it be more fun to set up defensive positions on the second to last flag and solidify your victory with a strong defensive effort by your team?

Granted, some main flags are cappable, and that's a good thing because it simulates routing the enemy. It would take weeks for the enemy to organize another assault so that makes sense.

If a base is uncappable or you do not have the bases before it, it's completely illogical to assume that you can cut off the enemy's supply line by destroying their main base.

The reason is that the enemy team would simply choose another route to squeeze in their supplies!

Anyway, I hope that's enough to convince you guys why main base raping is NOT a perfectly legit tactic. Follow the flag orders just like AAS says (that game mode was made for a reason).

Thank you.

/rant

.:iGi:. Eggenberg4Ever · Post by **.:iGi:. Eggenberg4Ever** » 2007-07-25 00:05

On .:iGi:. servers, the "rule", as far as we're concerned, is that if all other flags are capped then it's onwards, onwards to the enemy stronghold with dour expression & grim hand!
If there is only one base left, in all honesty, WTF are the team with the upper hand meant to do? Sit back?
The tactic of an SFs tyle hit & run raid against technicals at main base (when there are still other flags to be capped) has been put forward before. But it must be just that: hit and run; no hanging around whacking guys that spawn. That's a lame and cowardly style suited only to vanilla stat-padders .

demonicklown445 · Post by **demonicklown445** » 2007-07-25 00:05

The only tactic baserape would be, is if the enemy force was taking the base. Thats it. Thats not even baserape, its if they spawn kill them before they kill you, till you take the flag.

Artnez · Post by **Artnez** » 2007-07-25 00:09

.:iGi:. Eggenberg4Ever wrote:On .:iGi:. servers, the "rule", as far as we're concerned, is that if all other flags are capped then it's onwards, onwards to the enemy stronghold with dour expression & grim hand!
If there is only one base left, in all honesty, WTF are the team with the upper hand meant to do? Sit back?
The tactic of an SFs tyle hit & run raid against technicals at main base (when there are still other flags to be capped) has been put forward before. But it must be just that: hit and run; no hanging around whacking guys that spawn. That's a lame and cowardly style suited only to vanilla stat-padders .

Yes, that's def. true. Although that's not really what I was talking about.

Base raping itself is somewhat avoidable because of rally points and such. The flags themselves cannot be spawned on so that problem is already fixed in the mod.

The problem is attacking main bases before you've taken the rest of the bases and honestly I completely agree with your server's way of handling this problem so kudos to you guys. If it's the last flag, that means the enemy is being routed from the battlefield because they cannot continue the fight (they are too weak).

Desertfox · Post by **Desertfox** » 2007-07-25 00:13

The way I see it, if its there second to last base then you want to disrupt there reinforcements.

Wolfe · Post by **Wolfe** » 2007-07-25 00:55

Please lock this thread.

This topic already exists here: http://realitymod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24885 and is already under hot debate. No need to open a second thread.

SGT.JOKER · Post by **SGT.JOKER** » 2007-07-25 01:13

i think main base rape should be allowed whne one team has all other flags, some times the team doing the raping gets to into it how ever and doesnt notice that another maybe 1 or 2 flags have been taken by the other team

Eddiereyes909 · Post by **Eddiereyes909** » 2007-07-25 01:15

it should always be allowed,

Especially when boarding a carrier.

If the other team cant defend there main base, they should not be whining.

Meester · Post by **Meester** » 2007-07-25 01:23

Its in my opinion that attacking a main base before capturing all the flags can be a disadvantage too. You remove bodies to attack something that cannot be captured while the enemy could well be taking advantage of the fact that there are less troops trying to defend their flag(s).

blud · Post by **blud** » 2007-07-25 02:58

I agree that the whining should stop. The OP is just 1 big whine post if you ask me lol

El_Vikingo · Post by **El_Vikingo** » 2007-07-25 03:01

Everytime there's a new release there's always someone that registers to whine.

eddie · Post by **eddie** » 2007-07-25 03:09

.......Numb nuts Vikingo.

coolhand · Post by **coolhand** » 2007-07-25 03:11

I don't care about baseraping in PR - if you want to do it, feel free. Its just less men I have to deal with in the main firefight now. Back in the '42 days, I hated basecampers but in PR, they can't bug you as much with the introduction of Rally Points, Bunkers and Firebases. Besides, oftentimes, the baserape victims are the plane campers who get insanely pissed off when they get sniped 3ft away from the plane dressed up in their fancy little pilot suits lol.

If the other team makes it all the way to the base because your team didn't perform, well thats your and your team's fault for not fighting hard enough. That's what makes PR fun. If you wanna have an easy time killing the red dots on your radar, play as a team. That is your reward for teamwork. If your team wants to **** around, well its too bad for you because chances are you guys are going to get ran over.

Danthesandman · Post by **Danthesandman** » 2007-07-25 03:44

.:iGi:. Eggenberg4Ever wrote:The tactic of an SFs tyle hit & run raid against technicals at main base (when there are still other flags to be capped) has been put forward before. But it must be just that: hit and run; no hanging around whacking guys that spawn. That's a lame and cowardly style suited only to vanilla stat-padders .

I agree. I love sabotaging the enemy main. going in as SF and taking out communication and rally points is a very good tactic. If the commander assets werent destructable then I wouldnt go to their main, but they are so its up for grabs. also some flags that have rally points are also destructable so ill knife that away to... ow ya if any1 doesnt get that, rally points can be knifed once to remove them.

.:iGi:. Eggenberg4Ever · Post by **.:iGi:. Eggenberg4Ever** » 2007-07-25 05:43

Danthesandman wrote:... ow ya if any1 doesnt get that, rally points can be knifed once to remove them.

Shhhhhh........... it's a secret

Artnez · Post by **Artnez** » 2007-07-25 07:09

Um, register to whine? Check my post count. I used to be on the R-PUB team.
I do apologize about the other thread, but honestly I'm talking about something completely different. I'm not talking about base raping, I'm talking about attacking main bases before other flags are capped.

That being said, it's as if none of you read my post.

This isn't vBF2. In vBF2, the concept of "if you can't defend your main base, you deserve to lose it" applies. In this case it does not. Ask any main PR developer, I'm willing to bet they will tell you that if it was up to them they would make main bases 30 miles apart.

The point I was trying to make before is that sneaking around the main bases does not support the game style of Project Reality. There is absolutely NOTHING tactically realistic about doing that. *Nothing*.

Some of you call the SpecOps roll... Special Forces may disrupt bridges, etc -- but they do not set consistently attack the main base locations of enemy forces. These places have checkpoints with guards and much much much more to defend. We can't replicate this in PR due to engine limits, so it's assumed that main bases are very well defended until they are the very last stand.

Artnez · Post by **Artnez** » 2007-07-25 07:13

Danthesandman wrote:I agree. I love sabotaging the enemy main. going in as SF and taking out communication and rally points is a very good tactic. If the commander assets werent destructable then I wouldnt go to their main, but they are so its up for grabs. also some flags that have rally points are also destructable so ill knife that away to... ow ya if any1 doesnt get that, rally points can be knifed once to remove them.

Once again, this does not suport the gameplay of PR.

Of course you can hit and run, it's easy and it feels cool, like you're some undercover spec ops guy.

You don't have to be quiet. You don't have to avoid guards. All you do is wait until the base is completely open (or partially open), ie: when everyone else is busy fighting the battle and just casually walk in and place your detonators.

The most you'll have is 5 or 6 guys and they will probably have crewman or pilot kits because they're waiting for their vehicles.

You're creating a tactic that the mod and the engine do not support. There's so much more that comes along with going behind enemy lines -- so many tactics that the mod and engine can't even being to replicate.

Walking inside the enemy's base with 5 guys in crewman kits is not a "behind enemy lines" tactic.

Artnez · Post by **Artnez** » 2007-07-25 07:19

'[T wrote:BludShoT']I agree that the whining should stop. The OP is just 1 big whine post if you ask me lol

Nope. I'm presenting the facts (with a sprinkle of opinion).

The PR developers will never change the mod even if 70% of players are whining, so I'm not really worried about that. My goal here is to show those that keep hanging around main bases that the tactic is completely unrealistic.

They think they are creating some sort of spec ops scenario, but one guy running around a bunch of tents and throwing around detonators while no one is around has nothing to do with spec ops.

l|Bubba|l · Post by **l|Bubba|l** » 2007-07-25 10:44

What Artnez said is what I thinking the whole time.

Where can I sign?

Post by **IronTaxi** » 2007-07-25 10:56

Artnez.com wrote: This isn't vBF2. In vBF2, the concept of "if you can't defend your main base, you deserve to lose it" applies. In this case it does not. Ask any main PR developer, I'm willing to bet they will tell you that if it was up to them they would make main bases 30 miles apart.

bingo...thanks for having a brain...it always amazes me that some people believe the DEV team are a bunch of idiots...drunks and perverts yes...but idiots never!

seriously though...we have several month long design discussions about these issues with all devs including military advisors.

we have already been over all of this ground...and the conclusion is that these bases can be attackable sometimes and others not...

and thats just the way its gonna be so get used to it...cheers