Scopes??? Why???

[WNxKenwayy]

For starters, at the begining of the Afgan/Iraq conflict, yes there were units without optics. However, in the past 3 years, GASP, progress has been made and now almost every combat soldier/marine has optics. Since BF2/PR is supposed to be set to either current or near future standards, yeah, lots of optics. Hell I had an ACOG on my m249 in Iraq when I carried it.

If you think that we don't have optics, I suggest you reenlist, and head back over. No soldier is allowed in country without full plate IBA armor, no humvee not class 3 armored or above is allowed outside the wire, and EVERYONE HAS OPTICS THAT ACTUALLY PULLS A TRIGGER. This argument is over.

[LeadMagnet]

We couldn't be happier with our Elcans (or in my case something else...)

[Long Bow]

We couldn't be happier with our Elcans (or in my case something else...)

That's one heck of an airsoft team you got there....... I do prefer the look of the Elcan for some reason (purely from a cosmetic point of view)

[Lampshade111]

For starters, at the begining of the Afgan/Iraq conflict, yes there were units without optics. However, in the past 3 years, GASP, progress has been made and now almost every combat soldier/marine has optics. Since BF2/PR is supposed to be set to either current or near future standards, yeah, lots of optics. Hell I had an ACOG on my m249 in Iraq when I carried it.

If you think that we don't have optics, I suggest you reenlist, and head back over. No soldier is allowed in country without full plate IBA armor, no humvee not class 3 armored or above is allowed outside the wire, and EVERYONE HAS OPTICS THAT ACTUALLY PULLS A TRIGGER. This argument is over.

There are three classes of armor on the HMMWVs now? Hell you guys should just use APCs or newer MRAP vehicles. Why the demand for MRAPs over new APCs anyway?

[Rico11b]

For starters, at the begining of the Afgan/Iraq conflict, yes there were units without optics. However, in the past 3 years, GASP, progress has been made and now almost every combat soldier/marine has optics. Since BF2/PR is supposed to be set to either current or near future standards, yeah, lots of optics. Hell I had an ACOG on my m249 in Iraq when I carried it.

If you think that we don't have optics, I suggest you reenlist, and head back over. No soldier is allowed in country without full plate IBA armor, no humvee not class 3 armored or above is allowed outside the wire, and EVERYONE HAS OPTICS THAT ACTUALLY PULLS A TRIGGER. This argument is over.

Not really fair to muddy the water with that. When I was in 82nd Airborne Div, we always got all the cool toys to play with loonnngggg before any standard Infantry unit got them. Even before any Mechanized Infantry units. We used to get new equipment issued to us to test out to see if it was worth a dam. Most of the time it wasn't worth ****. The only unit to get new toys before us was 75th Ranger Regiment. Anyway, what I mean is 101st is part of 18th Airborne Corp, (unless they changed that since I left, which isn't likely) and we both know that 18th Airborne corp units are kick ***, so we get all the latest toys long before other units. What happens in 101st and the rest of 18th Airborne corp doesn't always happen Army wide. 18th ABN Corp troops are held to a higher standard. We had optics and other cool toys long before non-Airborne units did. It's a different world out there if you aren't part of 18th airborne corp. That's how it's always been.

[WNxKenwayy]

Oh truuuuuuuuuuuust me, I know all to much about the 18th airborne mafia. Once you're in, you're never let out. Although supposedly, according to the Army Times, they are more or less dissolving the 18th and letting its units being more or less independent. Part of the whole 'modular force' concept. No idea when that's actually going to happen, if ever given the rather scary political pull the old 18th guys have.

Having said that, I worked with 82nd ABN, 4th ID, 3rd ACR, 2nd ID, Marine units (sorry don't remember designation), 42nd ID (NY NG), and 1st CAV all in 1 tour in Iraq. Every soldier we worked with outside the wire that wasn't holed up in a tank had optics, IBA vest, and at least m1114 humvee's. This was from Aug 05 -> Sept 06.

Yes we had our cool toys for certain, but basics like armor and optics are standard for line troops in Iraq now.

[PBJTime]

For starters, at the begining of the Afgan/Iraq conflict, yes there were units without optics. However, in the past 3 years, GASP, progress has been made and now almost every combat soldier/marine has optics. Since BF2/PR is supposed to be set to either current or near future standards, yeah, lots of optics. Hell I had an ACOG on my m249 in Iraq when I carried it.

If you think that we don't have optics, I suggest you reenlist, and head back over. No soldier is allowed in country without full plate IBA armor, no humvee not class 3 armored or above is allowed outside the wire, and EVERYONE HAS OPTICS THAT ACTUALLY PULLS A TRIGGER. This argument is over.

I certainly understand the idea of things progressing, but as of last late 2005, almost nobody was equipped with optics when I was in Afghanistan, spooks aside...especially Marines, unless you were "tip of the spear." I can understand the idea that this game could conceivable be set in the near future so that does make it "plausible" I suppose. As far as body armor, that is supposed to be the case but I recall them not having the right sized plates for my vest so I went without the plates...too heavy and restricting anyways.

Your all capitalized comment (I guess by yelling, that makes it true) is patently false. Logistics and funds are still a big part in all of this. The Marine Corps hasn't gotten any richer. My old unit will be heading out very soon and they aren't any better off than we were a while back. They have some new lasers for the GAU's, and .50's, and 240's but that's about it.

[Rico11b]

Oh truuuuuuuuuuuust me, I know all to much about the 18th airborne mafia. Once you're in, you're never let out. Although supposedly, according to the Army Times, they are more or less dissolving the 18th and letting its units being more or less independent. Part of the whole 'modular force' concept. No idea when that's actually going to happen, if ever given the rather scary political pull the old 18th guys have.

Having said that, I worked with 82nd ABN, 4th ID, 3rd ACR, 2nd ID, Marine units (sorry don't remember designation), 42nd ID (NY NG), and 1st CAV all in 1 tour in Iraq. Every soldier we worked with outside the wire that wasn't holed up in a tank had optics, IBA vest, and at least m1114 humvee's. This was from Aug 05 -> Sept 06.

Yes we had our cool toys for certain, but basics like armor and optics are standard for line troops in Iraq now.

They have been talking that same stuff for years about 18th ABN corp. It'll never happen I think, but I could be wrong. They do have scary politcal pull, there's no doubt about it. Lol on Mafia, I haven't heard that term in a while. It's good to hear that the NG troops are also getting some love when it comes to gear. Those poor dumb ******** seemed to be the last to get any new or useful equipment. I got a question for ya. Is the Army training new recruits to use optics in basic training now, or is that still the units responsiblity once they get to their new duty station? Just curious is all.

[WNxKenwayy]

They have been talking that same stuff for years about 18th ABN corp. It'll never happen I think, but I could be wrong. They do have scary politcal pull, there's no doubt about it. Lol on Mafia, I haven't heard that term in a while. It's good to hear that the NG troops are also getting some love when it comes to gear. Those poor dumb ******** seemed to be the last to get any new or useful equipment. I got a question for ya. Is the Army training new recruits to use optics in basic training now, or is that still the units responsiblity once they get to their new duty station? Just curious is all.

Unit responsibility.

[Rico11b]

Unit responsibility.

[FONT=&quot]That's what I figured. Are they having them re-qualify with the optics at the range, once trained? Just tell me to "at ease". Hahaha


R

Quick response by the way, you must be lurking the forums too.[/FONT]

[WNxKenwayy]

When I went through in 04, we never got to use any optics on our m16s at all. Once you get to your unit its of course unit SOP, mine qualify's both iron and optic.

[Rico11b]

When I went through in 04, we never got to use any optics on our m16s at all. Once you get to your unit its of course unit SOP, mine qualify's both iron and optic.

[font=&quot]Sounds like not too much has changed then. I remember back when almost no one had scopes on their M-16s. Back then (prior to 00) the only scopes were the ones on the M24 SWS or the M4s that the Spec Ops guys carried. At least that's all I remember seeing anyways. Non Special Operations Command units never had scopes on M16s till some time in 02-03 I think. After that it seemed like they were pretty common place.

I never cared much for scopes on assault rifles though. Maybe cause I was soooo dam good at breaking them. Maybe cause I never viewed an assault rifle as being "worthy" of a nice scope, because the rifles themselves didn't seem accurate enough to be able to exploit the full potential of the optics. Not to mention mounting optics to the top of the carry handle always seemed like a weak link to me. Mounting systems are much better now of course. I tended to be pretty rough on equipment, and rifles were no exception. I wasn't trying to be rough it's just how it seemed to work out sometimes. What can I say, I was a big boy (still am) so I tended to be a bit heavy handed. My many Platoon Sergeants would say I was a “Bull in a china shop”. I had a buddy that was a big muscle head. He used to break shit all the time too.

Anyway, on to something more inline with the topic. On average what would you say is the percentage of first round hits made by NON-DM or NON SNIPER trained soldiers? Meaning how often (in your opinion) do they get first round hits on targets? At distances of say maybe 150m or more. I know 150m may be a bit of a stretch in more built up urban areas. That is unless we are talking rooftops. Your more current observations may shed more light on subjects like this one.

R[/font]

[WNxKenwayy]

Honestly, I'm not qualified to say that. Every engagement I've been in the first few seconds was nothing but massive firepower to gain fire superiority. Didn't necessarily matter what you were shooting at, so long as you were shooting to keep their heads down until we could figure out what happened. The only time you could tell was when we were clearing houses, but that's not exactly what you're looking for I'm thinking If someone was shooting at us from any sort of distance, we had our trucks nearby and always dismounted in at least a group of 4-5. By the time the fight would be over there would have been so many rounds fired it was impossible to tell really.

[Rico11b]

Honestly, I'm not qualified to say that. Every engagement I've been in the first few seconds was nothing but massive firepower to gain fire superiority. Didn't necessarily matter what you were shooting at, so long as you were shooting to keep their heads down until we could figure out what happened. The only time you could tell was when we were clearing houses, but that's not exactly what you're looking for I'm thinking If someone was shooting at us from any sort of distance, we had our trucks nearby and always dismounted in at least a group of 4-5. By the time the fight would be over there would have been so many rounds fired it was impossible to tell really.

That's pretty much what I thought. It's all about gaining fire superiority. There isn't a lot of prairie dog up and down style headshoting, like what happens ingame a bunch. If any at all. You have to be a lover of cover

Thanks dude

[Sturnn]

I found out on PR i get more kills when i use a gun without a scope, the scope makes your shots go off balance a little bit...but sometimes the scope can be a lifesaver....most of the time i tend to shoot enemies at medium ranges, and rarely long ranges because the scope moves from left to right making it hard and irratating to kill your target!.

thank god they'll never put scopes on pistols because that would be totally and utterly lame and stupid!.

I even heard that the british SA80 assault rifle had loads of modifications done to it because of its frequent jams and breaks etc....i even held one in my hands too!, i even aimed it at someone (wasn't loaded). i thought it was well cool, and i even saw some guy fire some kind of gun..it was at a place where they make bullets called Radway green in cheshire, its not that far from my hometown Crewe...and its lucky it didn't get bombed in WW2 because the location was so full of tree's etc the germans couldn't see it =].