Grenade launchers

[Paladin-X]

I need some input as to what you think should be done to fix grenade launchers. You can submit multiple answers if you think there should be a combination of likely solutions. Please note what combinations chose.

NOTE: If you chose option 8, please note what class should be removed in its place. If you chose option 3 what other item should be given to assault in its place (Teargas, Flashbangs, etc). The reason to include another item is that removing the launcher will make assault become essentially no different than the medic.

Below are some items that are either not possible or would take too long to work on right now.

Not possible for the time being:
-create a spawnable kit for grenadier
-make a new grenadier class (without removing another class) and limit it
-make the nades arm/explode after a certain distance travelled

This is simply a poll to get a general idea of what the community thinks should be done. We may or may not follow the majority ruling.

[CobraPhantom]

Smaller splash, only 3 rounds, round only detonate 5+ meters away

Almost like the rifle-nades in FH but of course more accurate. But thats just me

[BLind]

just time delay imo

looks like alot people have voted for a decrease in accuracy, but since the main problem is people blowing you away from point blank a decrease in accuracy would change anything would it

[dawdler]

Just make it go *PLONK* if it hits anything too close (maybe 5m) and significantly decrease accuracy while MOVING. I think it just be pinpoint when crouched/prone, but when you are moving (and especially running), it should go way of the crosshair. Just like a machinegun or sniper rifle it should have a cooldown on accuracy, the more stable you are the more accurate it becomes.

That is the real issue as with just about anything in BF2, being able to use things effectivly while moving. Timer, splash damage, ammo count, basicly the weapon itself is a minor issue in comparison.

[Evilhomer]

i disagree, noob tube whores realise that all they have to do is raise their crosshairs up a little bit, depending on the range of target. Releasticly, USGL's are primarily used for entrenchment clearance, aswell as buildings, and immobile objects. However you do get many types of nades. How about changing them to an orange smoke colour? Or tear gas?

[fuzzhead]

i agree with dawdler completely.

make severe accuracy changes while moving, running (ESPECIALLY jumping).
and the longer you stay still, the better your aim gets.

this should also happen for all infantry weapons, whether it be Carbine, LMG, Rifle, SRAW, etc.


but the timed delay for m203 is a good choice for now, until a way that you can get minimum range traveled actiivation to work.

[(-W3rD-)GotMilk]

a suggestion brought up on another forum was to make them more powerful, they do seem just a little weak right now but if they were made more powerful then you couldnt fire one at your own feet, kill the other guy and still live.

its a crappy solution but maybe someone else can build off of it.... its to early for me

[Grynsteg]

5. Timed delay (so it can fly at least 25 meters)
+ more powerful splash.

[GRB]

I chose 7. Decreasing the accuracy is quick, simple, and realistic.

Adding a timed delay for the grenade launcher is a good idea but, we'll end up with the same thing we get with the AT Rockets.

When you fire at something at close enough range, it will go right through the object and disapear.

If there is a way to allow the grenade to actually bounce off of objects while its counting down, that would be sweet!!

just time delay imo
looks like alot people have voted for a decrease in accuracy, but since the main problem is people blowing you away from point blank a decrease in accuracy would change anything would it

That is a server-side issue. That problem has already been fixed. If the server has Friendly Fire disabled, you cannot get hurt by your own weapons. This causes people to get very ignorant..But, some servers think its a good thing.

Decreasing the accuracy would help tremendously. As it is now, I see way too many players jumping around, launching grenades, laughing, and running back to thier support infantry... So, for instance, while jumping and attempting to launch a grenade, the accuracy should be next to none and chances are you'll die because you'll miss and the OTHER guy will laugh at you... That's the reality of it..

[Artnez]

Voted 3, we don't need them.

Since the maps will eventually get familiar, the grenade launcher causes an imbalance. In the real world, soldiers don't randomly fire grenade launchers at everything they see because they will quickly run out. Setting the amount of grenades to say, 3, won't change much becasue of the respawns.

The fact that you will be able to predict (more or less) where the enemy is coming from, grenade launchers become problematic.

Also, there is no structural damage from pummeling these things into the same place all of the time.

GLs cannot be accurately portrayed and neither can their dangers... only their advantages. This causes them to be overpowered no matter what you do to them.

Lower splash damage?
Will take awy from the concept of the grenade launcher in the first place. The splash damage is very low as it is. Hitting a target at medium range is still easier to do with a GL than a bullet. If the GL turns into a less powerful splah weapon it can still be used instead of the bullet.. as it's a one shot kill if you hit an area around your target.. not necessarily the target itself.

Change name from frag to someone else?
Maybe a good idea, but why? There's rarely an instance when you'll need to smoke something so far away that you're hand grenade can't reach it.

Time Delay?
Time delay won't do much because people will get used to it. At that point, you'll still be able to engage at close-medium range.. which is not point blank, but is still enough to skillesly get your kill.

Decrease rounds?
They can just respawn. It doesnt solve the issue of an entire team of naders.

Decrease accuracy?
Another viable solution, but still doesnt fit the bill because medium ranges will be easily attainable. Just click and boom. Same as shooting a bullet except there is a splash radius. It's like a one shot one kill bolt action rifle with a splash radius.

New grenadier class?
There are so many other possibilities for classes that I don't itll be worth creating a new class just because of the GL.

[GRB]

Remember, when removing certain factors from a game you risk losing valuable players that like to use that specific factor. (remember the removal of the jets.. )

It's not that I dont agree with ya Art. It's just that I think we need to keep a grasp on the amount of players we have, including the grenade launcher "whores"..

Not single weapon in the game cannot be portrayed accuratly in terms of structural damage. We can make everything else about them realistic.. There are drawbacks and consequences of each. The point being, none of the weapons in the game can cause structural damage. (except C4 to bridges.)

So all things aside, I see no reason NOT to have them in the game. They just need to be balanced out by some kind of realistic factor.

[Dethleffs]

I voted "other" thinking about removing the ability to shoot when jumping. But reading all of the above (should have done that before voting -silly me) I say decrease the accuracy, and while jumping decrease it to .0001.

regards,

Deth

[dawdler]

I voted "other" thinking about removing the ability to shoot when jumping. But reading all of the above (should have done that before voting -silly me) I say decrease the accuracy, and while jumping decrease it to .0001.

regards,

Deth

Actually in BF2 terms that would mean like 500x more accurate than a sniper rifle

You shouldnt be able to fire any weapon while jumping though, its got nothing to do with the grenade launcher.

[Dethleffs]

hehe... make it 50000 then

its got nothing to do with the grenade launcher.

really? They allways blow me up at ranges of 2 meters jumping and surviving... Removing the ability to shoot while jumping wouldnt solve the problem comlpetely but i think it would help.

Deth

[Beckwith]

eather more damage or delay

the thing iv constantly wondered is why was this never a problem in DC/BFV/POE, what did they do differently?

[Gunfighter34ID]

I voted 8 but I think there's more than one thing that needs to be done to it, honestly.

1) You need to make it so the grenades don't arm until they reach about 15 meters. That's how the vast majority of grenade types for the M203 work in the real world.

2) No one should be using any weapon while bunnyhopping, so if you can kill that, obviously, kill it. You're not going to hit shit with the M203 while moving, either, so you should either make it impossible to fire while in motion in general or so innacurate that it's not worth the effort.

3) If possible make it so there is both a leaf sight (short range) and quadrant sight (long range) available for the weapon. The leaf sight should be graduated from 50m to 250m and would come up by default when you select the weapon, the tangent sight to 400m and would be the "zoom" sight. If possible, make it so grenades can only be fired when employing the sights. That way, grenadiers have an extra step before they can fire, and have to at least make a pretense of estimating range and sighting in. That combined with 2) would eliminate most of the bunnyhopping bullshit with the 203s and GP30s. Or at least make it so that if you are not using the sights your grenade will be wildly innacurate past about 30 meters.

4) Reduce the fragmentation damage moderately but make the grenades a little more effective against light armor and soft-skinned vehicles. I don't know if this still holds true, but the most common grenade type issued when I was in was HEDP, which produced a fragmentation effect but also had penetration to make it useful against vehicles like BRDMs and BTRs. It would certainly finish off one of the buggies in the game with one round, and probably the scout cars as well. This would serve to give the infantry an extra anti-vehicle weapon (though it would be useless against tanks and take several grenades to defeat an APC).

5) Alternately, give the grenadier a few different grenade types he can choose from, like HEDP, HE, smoke, and maybe even M576 "multipurpose" (read, beehive) rounds, so he can use instead of giving him other kit items. This makes him a multipurpose guy (like in real life) who can contribute to your squad in several different ways.

6) Get rid of the SF kit and replace it with grenadier. Give the assault kit some C4 so he can handle the SF's job, and give the assaulter the option of M16 or M4. I assume you're going to tweak the weapons so give the M16 some kind of range/accuracy advantage over the M4 so there would be a reason to choose it, although at the ranges you're firing at in the game there's not much difference between the weapons IRL. The meat and potatoes of a fire team and squad, at least in the Army, are the rifleman, grenadier, and automatic rifleman. It's pretty much the same for the Marines. Ergo, these should all be classes represented.

Perhaps as an addendum to this point, you could make the squads already created at the start of the round, and players (by rank or first-come, first-serve) could then fill up the squads, selecting the classes they want that are available. If you wanted to make an 11-man old school TO&E rifle squad you would have something like 1xsquad leader (rifleman), 2xgrenadier, 2xautomatic rifleman, 1xmedic, 1xAT, 4xriflemen. Then you make the rest of the guys on the team "attachments" with classes being engineer, one sniper, or extra medics or riflemen. On big servers you'd have more than one squad per team, on small servers you'd have one squad plus maybe a sniper, an engineer or two, and one or two extra riflemen or medics.

[Rg]

The thing is, if the suggestions that are mentioned in this topic (range, decrease accuracy, takes time to aim - no crouch>stand>fire>crouch or strafe>fire>strafe BS ect..) can’t be implemented, then it should be taken out. Problem is, that’s a lot of “stuff” to do for this one damn weapon and you might not be able to make some of the changes. If that’s the case, I say scrap it.

[dawdler]

The thing is, if the suggestions that are mentioned in this topic (range, decrease accuracy, takes time to aim - no crouch>stand>fire>crouch or strafe>fire>strafe BS ect..) can’t be implemented, then it should be taken out. Problem is, that’s a lot of “stuff” to do for this one damn weapon and you might not be able to make some of the changes. If that’s the case, I say scrap it.

But then what would be the point of the assault? In PRMM the body armor doesnt mean that much. Might as well scrap assault alltogether.

[Doug97]

Just make it go *PLONK* if it hits anything too close (maybe 5m)

This is the answer.

[Paladin-X]

1. There is no reason why the splash damage or radius needs to be increased. It is extremely powerful right now. If you're experiencing otherwise, then either server's been modded or running with friendly fire off.

2. As posted in the unlikely solutions, I am unable to get nades to be affected by distance, only time. So please stop suggesting that it doesn't explode until it's reached a minimum distance, unless you can offer a way to do it fast and easy.

IRT GRB

The timed delay will not work like AT rockets currently do where they pass through objects. The nades will properly bounce off of walls and what not.

IRT Beckwith

I've never played BFV or POE, but in DC it was a problem. When the nade launchers first came out they were really powerful and everyone abused them. In the end they reduced the damage of the nades. It was then a big complaint about how useless they were.