Remove Squad Leader spawn point

Ace42 · Post by **Ace42** » 2007-07-28 04:01

Tartantyco wrote:-Realism is fun gameplay.

Then snap your BF2 CDs in half, 'cause you've been shot, no more gameplay ever again for you...

[T]Terranova7 · Post by **[T]Terranova7** » 2007-07-28 06:58

I don't like the idea of removing the SL spawn, not completly anyhow. I can understand it being somewhat "gamey" to kill a majority of an enemy squad, and then have them respawn only to rinse and repeat. Though at the same time, PR's maps are becoming bigger by the moment. Vehicles are becomming short in supply, and walking just isn't a viable option in many cases.

I would personally rather see some sort of compromise. Like the idea of having it so that you need 2 or 3 other squad members that are alive around the squad leader for other squad members to spawn.

Or, I think a better alternative lies with the problem so many of you describe. Woud it be possible to disable the squad leader spawning once he/she has entered a specified radius of the opponent's control point? Basically making it so that other squad members cannot spawn on the squad leader when he or she is in "enemy territory".

Post by **eggman** » 2007-07-28 07:03

The only way this would be done is with a good amount of open beta play testing. So you'll know if it has a chance of happening when we test it for a while in an open beta.

Revelation_Space · Post by **Revelation_Space** » 2007-07-28 10:34

I'd just like to say that removing Squad Leader spawn points is fine if you're playing on a clan server or whatever, but on public servers the majority of squad leaders are clueless, and no amount of hassling them makes them create rally points. Even when they do try to create them, half the squad completely ignores their orders to move to a position where he can create one. You can't simply bug out and create your own squad, because you then need 3 people on you before you can make one, and the cycle just repeats itself.

Good commanders are considerably more rare than good Squad Leaders, and I've only been in one or two games where they prove valuable and set up bunkers etc.

Sure, at the moment, an intelligent squad leader is going to stay out of the way and try and spot enemies from a rear position, but so what? That is team work as far as I'm concerned. If nothing else, it makes hunting down the squad leader a priority.

I just think it's a really bad idea, that's all. As I said, if you're on a server with two teams in clans - no noobs - it could work. But every single game I've ever played has been full of people who jump into transport and drive them off with zero passengers.

Even if you removed SL spawning, that makes no difference to these people, they'll drive off anyway - resulting in frustration turning into serious frustration.

Post by **Deadfast** » 2007-07-28 11:09

I agree about removing the spawn points.

However I think there might be a problem on insurgent team - SL can't deploy rally points.
It's fine, they've got spawn cars you say ?
I don't think so.
I'll use usual round on Al Basrah as example:
You respawn into spawncar, that you'll hide.
After few minutes you'll get killed and you'll want to respawn on the hidden spawn car. However you'll find out, that some fool used the spawncar as a transport into middle of the vehicle checkpoint, full of angry Brits.
Now this can loop forever untill you'll loose all the spawncars.
So my suggestion would be, if you remove the respawn on SL, give Insurgents possibility to deploy RP's.

Tartantyco · Post by **Tartantyco** » 2007-07-28 11:53

Then snap your BF2 CDs in half, 'cause you've been shot, no more gameplay ever again for you...

-Haha.... Not. And I never get shot, I just take naps.

-I see alot of the criticism applies to bonehead players and that just leaves me thinking, why do we have these people playing PR, at least in the way they do now? Perhaps it is because of the "get right into the action" spawns that litter the maps. And why aren't people that afraid to get killed in game? Perhaps it is because they can just spawn at CO or RP if they die.

gazzthompson · Post by **gazzthompson** » 2007-07-28 12:22

but remember guys , if u have a RP close by which every squad should have , then u dont need the SL , also about insurgents , we might need to sort something out there

Post by **bosco_** » 2007-07-28 12:26

Let Insurgents spawn on ammo caches?

Post by **Deadfast** » 2007-07-28 12:56

Sorry, double-post.

Post by **Deadfast** » 2007-07-28 12:57

'[R-PUB wrote:bosco']Let Insurgents spawn on ammo caches?

Not bad idea, but it may spoil the loacation - imagine 15 ppl comming out of same spot - bit suspicious.
Also not too ideal if some1 is planting explosives on it.

Maybe more strongholds like mosque (hotel, refinery, etc.) ?

Post by **Dunehunter** » 2007-07-28 13:11

Maybe make it depend on certain things? Like...if the SL is within a certain distance of the base/rp/commander truck/apc/bunker, etc., his squad members can spawn on him, otherwise they can't? Or the other way around?

nidpants · Post by **nidpants** » 2007-07-28 13:24

I like Terranova's idea of disabling the SL if you are in "enemy territory", but the definition of this becomes tricky. Even just disabling the SL spawn when capping a flag would work well enough.

On the other hand, just allowing the RP to be set up with at least half of the SMs present, not including the SL would let two-man spec ops or sniper squads function with an RP too. As it is, the SL spawn doesn't make sense, creates very gamey situations (which is why PR even exists in the first place!), and has plenty of viable alternatives.

A_COLOHAN · Post by **A_COLOHAN** » 2007-07-28 13:38

I think getting rid of it completly would be the way to go for the simple reason it would a bigger emphises on RP and regrouping. Adding to fighting as a squad. Also the idea of havin 3 SM alive in squad before you can spawn on the SL isnt a bad idea either. Its a bit of a compromise between the being able to spawn on the SL or not.

Metis-M · Post by **Metis-M** » 2007-07-28 13:39

Dont know what some people talk about, gazzthompson shouldnt run alone if he has problems with more enemies, for that you have your squad.
Spawning on squadleader simulate heavy combat and many troops, by taking that away you get many boring rounds for many reasons.

I would suggest to keep the mod playble on public, that means keep sl as spawnpoint and make it so that to place a ralley point for squadleader would be easier, in 0.5 it was good but now on public your game depends to much on intellegence of your squadmembers.

Simio1337 · Post by **Simio1337** » 2007-07-28 14:07

This isn't 21cw go away.

gazzthompson · Post by **gazzthompson** » 2007-07-28 14:13

Metis-M wrote:Dont know what some people talk about, gazzthompson shouldnt run alone if he has problems with more enemies, for that you have your squad.

didnt u read the post atall ? i said when i take out a squad and theres only 1 left , i can take 1 person on , but then as he is squad leader they all spawn on him when i get there.

tekkyy · Post by **tekkyy** » 2007-07-28 14:32

Remove SL spawn. Issues like transport or stupid commander is NOT the dev's fault.

I feel rally points should be easier to see. Spawn car as a replacement would be nice.

I am one of those who sugguested this before.
Glad to see a more detailed discussion this time around. See how "suggested before" is not good enough? You need a standalone topic to give it due attention or thought.

Metis-M · Post by **Metis-M** » 2007-07-28 14:36

gazzthompson wrote:didnt u read the post atall ? i said when i take out a squad and theres only 1 left , i can take 1 person on , but then as he is squad leader they all spawn on him when i get there.

Repeat your action, i dont see any problems or something new in that.

Zodiaccup · Post by **Zodiaccup** » 2007-07-28 14:46

I don't like this suggestion at all, I think this could really take some intensity from the battle.

I mean, if you see a single enemy behind a rock and approach/flank him
and find an enemy RP and several guys are just spawning in, it's almost
the same. This are those little surprises, that the battlefield should definitely keep imo.
The SL is the most important member of the squad for a reason. He should be always the primary target for the opforces. If you kill him first the problem is solved.

And if you're attacking a building/bunker or something else, 'nade them first.
If you die nevertheless, tell your squad. And they will take care of it.

Post by **Dunehunter** » 2007-07-28 15:15

Metis-M, I think that he implies taking them out with his squad, not that he would go solo squad hunting. GL taking out 5 people who are together and aren't total idiots anyway.